RIchard Britten Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 Just now, woolley said: You don't even deny justifying violence by the left. Obviously the end justifies the means - another old nazi adage. Do I need to show you the video of the woman (and other victims) being ran over with a car? Or the black guy being beaten with bats and riot shields? Yes there was fighting on both sides....I imagine its hard to keep your calm when a Nazi is in your face calling for your extermination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted August 17, 2017 Author Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, woolley said: You don't even deny justifying violence by the left. Obviously the end justifies the means - another old nazi adage. Violence against Nazis...or as anyone with an inkling of credibility calls it...World War 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sausage Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Come on Woolley....a dim witted skinhead on military gear turns up outside your house screaming obscenities about your race etc...and you stand and say/do......nothing ??!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: Violence against Nazis...or as anyone with an inkling of credibility calls it...World War 2. Don't you see how ridiculous that comparison is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, sausage said: For Christ's sake even Steve Bannon has came out and called the white nationalists clowns....the business world has deserted 'Im gonna make America great again' Trump because of his indefensible stance......yet the MF usual suspects know better.... laughable!!! He's spot on then. They're clowns. Idiots of the highest order. That does not automatically make them comparable to the Third Reich and no amount of shouting and jumping up and down will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, sausage said: Come on Woolley....a dim witted skinhead on military gear turns up outside your house screaming obscenities about your race etc...and you stand and say/do......nothing ??!!! We are talking about a full scale riot here. See the BBC report that was linked earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, sausage said: For Christ's sake even Steve Bannon has came out and called the white nationalists clowns....the business world has deserted 'Im gonna make America great again' Trump because of his indefensible stance......yet the MF usual suspects know better.... laughable!!! Trump condemned both sides. Everyone here has condemned both sides except for the ones who are saying that violence on the extreme left is justified because it is against the extreme right. Where has anyone said here that the white nationalists are right and justified? Nobody has. It's laughable that you can see what isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sausage Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 And does the riot occur if grown men don't tool up and drive for hours to march/shout/threaten/attack people under some ridiculous guise of caring because a statue is being moved ?! That's the most ridiculous thing about it. I have made no third Reich comparisons....but for people (including Trump) to not concede that the nationalists/Nazi supporters/KKK crew are to blame for what happened is just stupid...and it seems that thankfully many influential people in the Usa and globally have no problem seeing it for what it was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 There is a very informative, very unbiased article in the Chicago Tribune which has witness statements from both sides of this debacle. The link I couldn't get to work but it's there, for anyone who's really interested in hearing it from those left and right boots on the ground. In the article you can just taste the delight of the antifa brigade when describing how they got stuck in to the 'nazis'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, quilp said: you can just taste the delight of the antifa brigade when describing how they got stuck in to the 'nazis'. Any different from, say, Cable Street ? Don't you believe that people are right to fight fascism? Surely nobody today would seriously argue that the heroes of Cable Street were wrong to attack the fascists in 1936. There was violence on both sides - but on one side that violence was surely justified. Ditto those who stood up to the NF in south London, especially, in the 70s. Or those who guard the synagogues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Certainly not! I am amazed at that proposition coming from you, Pongo. The rule of law forbids violence. Who is to judge what is justified? Should we all take it into our own hands? Would you advocate it against murderers and child molesters? Do you believe in vigilantism? This is what you are saying. As a right winger I would support hanging for certain offences, but I'm not going to get a posse together to string people up from the nearest lampost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, pongo said: Any different from, say, Cable Street ? Don't you believe that people are right to fight fascism? Surely nobody today would seriously argue that the heroes of Cable Street were wrong to attack the fascists in 1936. There was violence on both sides - but on one side that violence was surely justified. Ditto those who stood up to the NF in south London, especially, in the 70s. Or those who guard the synagogues. It's all subjective Pongo. Germans in the main under Nazi rule were very thankful for strong leadership at a time they were being attacked on all sides by the evils of communism. There were many sympathisers of Nazism across the west who could see the situation Germany found itself at that time, right up to the highest levels of power in the UK and US. Of course you get the lunatic fringe who take things too far but on the whole history is never black and white, there are a thousand shades of grey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Judging by quite easily researchable history i would say it's safe to assume both sides are heavily infiltrated by agents provocateurs. There wont be too many actual surprise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 31 minutes ago, Lxxx said: It's all subjective Pongo. Germans in the main under Nazi rule were very thankful for strong leadership at a time they were being attacked on all sides by the evils of communism. There were many sympathisers of Nazism across the west who could see the situation Germany found itself at that time, right up to the highest levels of power in the UK and US. Of course you get the lunatic fringe who take things too far but on the whole history is never black and white, there are a thousand shades of grey. Is that how you see it? That the Nazis were generally okay chaps apart from a lunatic fringe which took things too far? They were a criminal gang - obsessed with conspiracy theories about jews and capitalists. And the idea that they provided "strong leadership" is not supported by the history. The reality was that govt practically ceased to function and was replaced by patronage and favouritism. There was no clear leadership or chain of command and in most cases nobody to take responsibility for the process of decision making. Those in the UK who supported the Nazis or argued that Britain should make peace were, quite rightly, ostracised and marginalised. Roderick Spode types and the people around Lord Halifax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted August 17, 2017 Share Posted August 17, 2017 Just now, pongo said: Is that how you see it. That the Nazis were generally okay chaps apart from a lunatic fringe which took things too far? They were a criminal gang. And the idea that they provide "strong leadership" is not supported by the history. The reality was that govt practically ceased to function and was replaced by patronage and favouritism. There was no clear leadership or chain of command and in most cases nobody to take responsibility for the process of decision making. Those in the UK who supported the Nazis or argued that Britain should make peace were, quite rightly, ostracised and marginalised. Roderick Spode types and the people around Lord Halifax. That's not what I said and you know it. All governments are criminal gangs, some cloak themselves in posh accents and expensive suits and others are more overt. Let's not think we were some kind of knights in shining armour, the utter destruction we inflicted on innocent German civilians is one of the biggest war crimes of the century, after the destruction inflicted on Russians under communist rule. There were no innocent parties in WW2, only two criminal gangs vying for power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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