wrighty Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 8 minutes ago, Chinahand said: Is this really so? In these hugely racially sensitive times referring to the colour of someone's skin is a huge no no, but genuinely is this racist rather than descriptive? Of course there is the additional complication that the gentleman she said this to was of South Asian heritage, but I can't see how this makes the statement racist, if you wanted to racially abuse someone you wouldn't use the phase in this way. For me it looks like she thought the person was white not that she was racially abusing them. You are a waste of a white skin. You are a waste of a black skin. You are a waste of a brown skin. You are a waste of breath. You are a waste if space. I'm having difficulty seeing racist intent here apart from adding an unnecessary emphasis on race, but is that racist, to simply draw attention to someone's race? I fully get in these times how some people will argue that it is symptomatic of structural racism etc. And given this I don't think the phrase should be used, but I see it basically as descriptive not abusive. I'm probably going to get in trouble for saying this but I do think our society is beginning to needlessly get in a muddle over racism. This lady may be a bit of a gob, but racist? That is a pretty serious accusation. I think all she was doing was using an outdated phrase which means you are a waste of space. Anyway presses Submit Reply slightly dreading I'll be accused of having all sorts of structurally racist and culturally insensitive views for saying this. I've never heard that phrase before. I've heard "you're a waste of skin" - Malcolm Tucker in The Thick of It - but never with added colour. Whether it's technically racist or not when you analyse it, it's still a particularly stupid thing to say and you'd expect her to know better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxchester Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, Chinahand said: Is this really so? In these hugely racially sensitive times referring to the colour of someone's skin is a huge no no, but genuinely is this racist rather than descriptive? Of course there is the additional complication that the gentleman she said this to was of South Asian heritage, but I can't see how this makes the statement racist, if you wanted to racially abuse someone you wouldn't use the phase in this way. For me it looks like she thought the person was white not that she was racially abusing them. You are a waste of a white skin. You are a waste of a black skin. You are a waste of a brown skin. You are a waste of breath. You are a waste if space. I'm having difficulty seeing racist intent here apart from adding an unnecessary emphasis on race, but is that racist, to simply draw attention to someone's race? I fully get in these times how some people will argue that it is symptomatic of structural racism etc. And given this I don't think the phrase should be used, but I see it basically as descriptive not abusive. I'm probably going to get in trouble for saying this but I do think our society is beginning to needlessly get in a muddle over racism. This lady may be a bit of a gob, but racist? That is a pretty serious accusation. I think all she was doing was using an outdated phrase which means you are a waste of space. Anyway presses Submit Reply slightly dreading I'll be accused of having all sorts of structurally racist and culturally insensitive views for saying this. To my mind she's suggesting that white skin is superior to other colours, otherwise why mention it? I could be completely wrong though and as you say it is a bit of a minefield. I don't think this is the strongest counter argument from her though: “Baroness Mone is 100% not a racist. Baroness Mone and her husband have built over 15 schools in Africa in the past three years.” Just needed her to mention all her black friends as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 14 minutes ago, NoTailT said: @The Phantom Which in the case of PPE Medpro was not Michelle or Doug. Read the articles on it? I have. They company had an arrangement to share profits with an actual supplier. PPE Medpro pitched itself as being able to secure the contracts because of being able to influence UK Gov and had a contract with a supplier that would benefit from that. They did nothing other than manage the contracts/supply and secure them. No cash fronting for supplies required on behalf of those that got rich from it. Nah, not really read much on it to be honest. It's more a response to the indignant statements from people about how do rich people get involved in this kind of thing and assume there is something dodgy going on. When the reality is because A) they have the Capital and B) they've probably done some deals in China at some point and have contacts there. This is how business works. If I had a pile of spare money laying around and some contacts with some Chinese factories, I'd be all over PPE supply like shit on velcro... imagine even if you'd just bought a container of facemasks/handwash at the start of the pandemic. I'm assuming the PPE was actually supplied? In which case, probably not much of an issue really. I've read plenty of articles where huge sums were paid and nothing was received. These are the ones to be concerned about surely? Or the track and trace software shambles where billions was spent by UK Govt on literally nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 21 minutes ago, manxchester said: To my mind she's suggesting that white skin is superior to other colours, otherwise why mention it? I can't really see this. I understand，though don't fully agree, that the acceptability of the use of racial terms depends upon the race of the person using them and their position in the "structural hierarchy" (goodness I find this all problematic), but wouldn't see any claims of racial superiority if a black man said to another "you are a waste of a black skin". Where is the implied superiority here? I have difficulty seeing an implied superiority suddenly emerging when used by a person from the majority/dominant culture. She's a gob and doesn't come over particularly well, but to use this incident to add racism to her list of offenses is, in my view, lazy and symptomatic of our times rather than any racist animus from her. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 47 minutes ago, NoTailT said: @The Phantom Which in the case of PPE Medpro was not Michelle or Doug. Read the articles on it? I have. They company had an arrangement to share profits with an actual supplier. PPE Medpro pitched itself as being able to secure the contracts because of being able to influence UK Gov and had a contract with a supplier that would benefit from that. They did nothing other than manage the contracts/supply and secure them. No cash fronting for supplies required on behalf of those that got rich from it. Barrowman is not short of a few bob and most probably injected funding to kick it all off. That's what I read into it. If not, then who do you think funded it? If there was nothing in it for the dynamic duo why get involved? Many peers and others with access to Westminster and Ministers offer their services and in all sorts of ways. Mone is not unique i that respect. I'm not defending anyone just suggesting that's how it works. Would you have done it for nowt having put some money into it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, ManxTaxPayer said: Yes, I think it probably would. But it's irrelevant. I think I understand what you’re saying, but I believe it is hugely relevant. The political air of egregious indiscretions, coupled with the lingering spectre of corruption, has not been this stinky since the sleaze days of the 80-90s. It is true that New Labour had seemingly also embraced the ‘age of excess’ for their mates as much as the next Tory government (and Sir Tony had won the three GE in spite of the Iraqi was scandal), but if Labour can’t make a mince out of the current skulduggery, then they too need a new leader. Edited January 7, 2022 by code99 typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opusManx Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) . Edited January 13, 2022 by opusManx 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManxTaxPayer Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) . Edited January 11, 2022 by ManxTaxPayer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 56 minutes ago, Chinahand said: Anyway presses Submit Reply slightly dreading I'll be accused of having all sorts of structurally racist and culturally insensitive views for saying this. Nah. You're just wrong. The point about Mone's odd phrase is that it doesn't make any sense unless you think white skins are superior to other sorts, in the way that saying someone was a 'waste of skin' or 'waste of breath' wouldn't do. A black person using the equivalent phrase to another would also have racial implications - accusing someone of a lack of solidarity for instance - otherwise that wouldn't make any sense either. The fact that she unknowingly aimed it at someone of mixed race is only telling in that she automatically assumed that anyone else in the circles she was mixing[1] would be white. But the phrase would still be racist if the recipient had been white - though maybe less likely to be called out. The fact that the Guardian (always keen to gatekeep) missed this point was also telling. [1] The row emerged from a fatal collision between two rich people's pleasure craft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 1 hour ago, manxchester said: To my mind she's suggesting that white skin is superior to other colours, otherwise why mention it? I could be completely wrong though and as you say it is a bit of a minefield. I don't think this is the strongest counter argument from her though: “Baroness Mone is 100% not a racist. Baroness Mone and her husband have built over 15 schools in Africa in the past three years.” Just needed her to mention all her black friends as well. Why not just say the number of schools? 'Over 15', is that 15 1/4, 15 1/8, why not just say 16, 17, 20, not, 'over 15'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Maybe it meant they have built over 15 schools. With hotels and the like. 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Roger, I disagree, but think I've said all I've got to say, but it is interesting how accusations of racism gain traction nowadays. I also do not think those living the ulta rich 5-star lifestyle are in a white bubble. Plenty of people of Arab, South- and East-Asian, and Africa heritage exist in it too. I've a certain amount of experience interacting with people from such backgrounds and find your statement unconvincing they do not live in a white-only bubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxchester Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Very slow work day so thought I'd do a bit of digging. It would seem the building of schools is actually Barrowmans foundation making a donation to Action Aid who have used the money to build 8 schools... God when is it 5 o'clock! ACTIONAID Over the past 4 years, Doug has been a major financial contributor towards the building of 8 schools in Africa; 7 of which are in Ethiopia and 1 in Ghana. As a result, over 3,500 children now have access to schooling and sanitary facilities. During 2017, Doug has pledged to get more involved with Actionaid going forward and to work with them on new projects. Apart from the above charities, Doug regularly supports local charities on the Isle of Man, where he lives, ranging from Cancer Care to promoting sport in the community for young people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10378519/Michelle-Mone-personally-recommended-PPE-firm-set-husbands-employee.html Seems the PPE Co is actually an IOM Co with sole director and shareholder the MD of Knox House (Doug's CSP). It also seems to be in default at the Registry with no Annual Return submitted.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 This hasn't made the local papers yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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