the stinking enigma Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Once it gets ugly the established order wins. That's where they want it. They are very good at dealing with that type of thing. That's the world we live in part 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said: Once it gets ugly the established order wins. That's where they want it. They are very good at dealing with that type of thing. That's the world we live in part 2. Depends how ugly it gets. Nothing is for ever. Not even established orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 2 hours ago, P.K. said: Also countries like the UK do not have a national paramilitary force between the police and the army who wear silly hats. It could get very ugly - unfortunately.... they just send in the paras dressed as cops..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 fear not people, help is at hand. https://www.rt.com/uk/405802-tony-blair-catalonia-spain/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 hour ago, the stinking enigma said: fear not people, help is at hand. https://www.rt.com/uk/405802-tony-blair-catalonia-spain/ Nice one, Stinky. That man is a case study in self-delusion. Thinks he has the answers to all the world's problems, or maybe thinks he can get paid for having the answers to all the world's problems which is as good. While Blair considers himself an expert negotiator.................... Ha, feckin' ha. What a tosser. No doubt they'll have bombed each other back to the stone age once he's worked his magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 what's interesting is the eu's long term plan, they have always wanted to weaken nation states and have regions with no power yet when it happens they run a mile...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarne Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Well yeah, this looks like a win/win for the EU. Weakens Spanish unity, makes them more reliant on the EU. France and Germany gain more power over them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 germany hasn't got a government and is unlikely to have one for some time, macron has his own domestic problems, the unelected eu are having a field day...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 10 hours ago, woolley said: Nice one, Stinky. That man is a case study in self-delusion. Thinks he has the answers to all the world's problems, or maybe thinks he can get paid for having the answers to all the world's problems which is as good. While Blair considers himself an expert negotiator.................... Ha, feckin' ha. What a tosser. No doubt they'll have bombed each other back to the stone age once he's worked his magic. To be fair he is the one figure in British Politics that can unite Corbynistas, Tories, Ukippers, Trots, and Fascists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 10 minutes ago, Declan said: To be fair he is the one figure in British Politics that can unite Corbynistas, Tories, Ukippers, Trots, and Fascists. in hatred of him..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 It really doesn't look good and pretty soon the very grubby, material and violent side of politics could become even more explicit. The Spanish constitution - and hence legal system - is entirely set up to stop regional independence movements. But the Catalonian one is powerful enough to bring 100s of thousands, if not millions, of people to the cause - and that involves money and the physical power of people willing to take to the streets. For the Supreme Court to suspend a regional parliament is meaningless when a quorum of that parliament do not accept the authority of that court. There is a very real risk of sedition charges and rounding people up, tax boycotts, parallel structures, and more violent confrontation as the state's monopoly of violence becomes contested. If this was happening in Estonia you'd expect the sudden appearance of Little Green Men! Ha, I'll do a slight Woolley - liberals living in their bubbles don't realise the structures of the state provide stability. Trying to abrogate them and conjure up alternatives isn't a simple process and often leads to irreconcilable points of view and violence. If 51% of a region vote to strip the citizenship of the other 49% and enforce secession on them you've got to be careful saying democracy is the right path to go down - the consent of the governed is a highly complex multifaceted issue which works both ways. The Rodney King appeal "can we all get along?" sadly is often ignored. Given the Spanish constitution the Spanish authorities are on a dogmatic path to enforce their constitutional position, while those seeking Catalan independence believe they have an entirely different legitimacy to pursue their's. It is unlikely to end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 cough...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Declan said: To be fair he is the one figure in British Politics that can unite Corbynistas, Tories, Ukippers, Trots, and Fascists. Yep. They ALL hate him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Declan said: To be fair he is the one figure in British Politics that can unite Corbynistas, Tories, Ukippers, Trots, and Fascists. How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 hour ago, woody2 said: in hatred of him..... Keep up at the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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