Declan Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 8 hours ago, P.K. said: I notice you have, unsurprisingly, ducked my question as to what good it would do them anyway? Well it's a stupid question to ask me since, my position is not that independence is best for Catalunya or not, it's that the issue should be decided by Catalans. Not me, not you, not Madrid, or France or the people of all Spain. Personally, I don't have a strong opinion either way. All I want is a stable, democratic and peaceful outcome. The antics of the Spanish government so far are making that impossible. But it can be solved by another referendum, one every side participates in. Then dealing with the outcome like adults by negotiating a solution that delivers the will of he people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 It's not a stupid question to me as I'm interested in where all this nationalistic fervour has come from? Because as I have pointed out quite a few times now there seems to be nothing to be really gained by it. I hope the statement from France that an independent Catalan can basically go fuck themselves puts an end to it. Because it should do. ETA : looks like common sense might prevail after all - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41562155 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 OK, it's not a stupid question to ask the nationalists. But it's unfair to expect me to answer it. That said, in general terms, I don't think it is unreasonable for people in a region to want to be part of a smaller, locally governed country. That nation can then be part of the EU / UN for mutual cooperation. That rather than the large nation states that are a throwback to the Imperial Era, seems to me, to be the ultimate future to a peaceful future. That's going to take a long time to evolve though and the tide of history seems to be temporarily moving away from that, I'm afraid. As to whether Catalunya is a region that could breakaway, and whether now is the time to do that, that's for the Catalan's to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 no rewards for a criminal act Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 What criminal act? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 holding an illegal referendum..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 9 minutes ago, Declan said: What criminal act? Why do I get the feeling you're going to regret asking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: Why do I get the feeling you're going to regret asking? slow coach... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Clearly the whole saga could have been handled better by both sides but we are where we are. I can only see it getting messier from here on in and the Catalonian regional economy taking a massive kicking, which should quell the administrative nationalist fervour but probably only strengthen the fringe aspects. In which case we might see an equivalent of ETA spring up which would be a sorry path to go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 51 minutes ago, Declan said: OK, it's not a stupid question to ask the nationalists. But it's unfair to expect me to answer it. As to whether Catalunya is a region that could breakaway, and whether now is the time to do that, that's for the Catalan's to decide. Not really, Declan. Those Catalonians seeking independence are a minority. They can't just decide. It's the underdog syndrome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 minute ago, quilp said: Not really, Declan. Those Catalonians seeking independence are a minority. They can't just decide. It's the underdog syndrome... As previously mentioned...ETA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 we will have to see if he wimps out tonight,regardless the long term financial impact has already happened, just look at scotland..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 minute ago, RIchard Britten said: As previously mentioned...ETA got their arse kicked..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarne Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 They're like a football crowd. ALL CHANT TOGETHER Something else happens ALL CHANT TOGETHER Match ends Get into fights with each other and bring special brew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Declan said: That said, in general terms, I don't think it is unreasonable for people in a region to want to be part of a smaller, locally governed country. That nation can then be part of the EU / UN for mutual cooperation. That rather than the large nation states that are a throwback to the Imperial Era, seems to me, to be the ultimate future to a peaceful future. That's going to take a long time to evolve though and the tide of history seems to be temporarily moving away from that, I'm afraid. As to whether Catalunya is a region that could breakaway, and whether now is the time to do that, that's for the Catalan's to decide. They couldn't join the EU and the ONLY country that went all the way from UDI to recognition by the UN in recent times was Bangladesh. Shades of Brexit: "The Catalan government owes €77bn (£68bn) at the last count, or 35.4% of Catalonia's GDP. Of that, €52bn is owed to the Spanish government. In 2012, the Spanish government set up a special fund to provide cash to the regions, who were unable to borrow money on the international markets after the financial crisis. Catalonia has been by far the biggest beneficiary of this scheme, taking €67bn since it began. Not only would Catalonia lose access to that scheme, but it would raise the question of how much debt Catalonia would be willing to repay after independence." Worth a read on issues like they would need their own currency http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41474674 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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