Declan Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, Declan said: Liar. yes, puigdemont is....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynragh Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 hour ago, P.K. said: Hmmmm have you considered the CBA facet of the above issue? Yes entirely. Questioning the right of people to hold a referendum is implicitly accepting that the only other options are violence and oppression, and not bothering to acknowledge that within a debate is... is... I guess cowardly is the right word?? I suppose it’s just the cold hard truth of who we are. In return, hoping for anything else is perhaps naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 has he declared or not, know one seems to know,another lefty wimp...... the handful that turn up last night looked well pissed off...... tony blair has offered to step in, should be good for a laugh..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 4 hours ago, maynragh said: Yes entirely. Questioning the right of people to hold a referendum is implicitly accepting that the only other options are violence and oppression. Don't be silly. The Catalonia referendum was illegal because the Spanish Constitution of 1978 explicitly affirmed “the indissoluble unity of the Spanish nation” which 90% of Catalans voted for. Rather more than the recent fiasco of a referendum. Sure times change but an unassailable fact is that Catalonia was loaned a shitload of money by the rest of Spain that would have contributed to it's current financial success. He who pays the piper.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarne Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 "Have you declared independence?" Quizàs si ... Quizàs no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Although they used strong language and were fingering their respective nuclear buttons yesterday, both Madrid and Catalunya's leaders seem to have committed to dialogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 15 hours ago, maynragh said: /\ I have to say I find it quite odd and intriguing that nobody is prepared to discuss the fact that violence and oppression are the only ways we change our group boundaries. Clearly everyone is happy with that, other than perhaps Declan. Hmmm... sort of depressing. As someone who has seen first hand the effects of the use of violence at an international level, I always find it those farthest removed from said violence who are the most comfortable for its use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynragh Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 9 hours ago, P.K. said: Don't be silly. The Catalonia referendum was illegal because the Spanish Constitution of 1978 explicitly affirmed “the indissoluble unity of the Spanish nation” which 90% of Catalans voted for. Rather more than the recent fiasco of a referendum. Sure times change but an unassailable fact is that Catalonia was loaned a shitload of money by the rest of Spain that would have contributed to it's current financial success. He who pays the piper.... Yessss.... but you’ve avoided the point of my question again. If hypothetically (for the sake of discussion) the majority of Catalans do want independence, what option do they have other than violence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Declan said: Although they used strong language and were fingering their respective nuclear buttons yesterday, both Madrid and Catalunya's leaders seem to have committed to dialogue. either tow the line or declare independence and get 155..... madrid also rejected mediation, so no idea how you think any dialogue will take place before the deadline... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 hour ago, RIchard Britten said: As someone who has seen first hand the effects of the use of violence at an international level, I always find it those farthest removed from said violence who are the most comfortable for its use. did you have to use your mop.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 hour ago, maynragh said: Yessss.... but you’ve avoided the point of my question again. If hypothetically (for the sake of discussion) the majority of Catalans do want independence, what option do they have other than violence? change the constitution within the law..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 hour ago, maynragh said: Yessss.... but you’ve avoided the point of my question again. If hypothetically (for the sake of discussion) the majority of Catalans do want independence, what option do they have other than violence? No, I haven't avoided your question at all. They have the option of aquiescence. After all, they voted for it. Something we call democracy. Which for some strange reason you prefer to ignore..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynragh Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 hour ago, P.K. said: No, I haven't avoided your question at all. They have the option of aquiescence. After all, they voted for it. Something we call democracy. Which for some strange reason you prefer to ignore..... That’s an interesting take on it. So a decision taken in 1978 will bind anyone within the borders of Spain until such time as any present day majority of those eligible to vote in Spain persuade their represtatives to change it? And that’s what ‘you’ call democracy? It’s not consistent with the concept of democracy as it originally evolved, but I appreciate there are many other factors seeking to manipulate what it means now. By saying they have the choice to acquiesce (Hobson’s Choice) you are essentially agreeing with my assertion. They either accept oppression by an entity that is not the majority to them, or their only other option to achieve self determination is violence - and you’re ok with that because you don’t think they should be allowed to question (not even overrule, simply question) a decision made nearly 40 years ago, in a peaceful manner. Hmmm indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 a few few areas of spain want independence, go down the legal route or get treated like a criminal, seems fair to me..... the fact puigdemont party has zero support is the major factor, it would be like the libdums running the uk....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.