woody2 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 and you....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 13 minutes ago, woody2 said: and you....... Oh look you have caught up and worked out how to add emojis to your nonsense gibberings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 11 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: Oh look you have caught up and worked out how to add emojis to my nonsense gibberings. cough...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 51 minutes ago, woody2 said: cough...... You might to get that looked at, as well as your broken keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: You might to get that looked at, as well as your broken keyboard. more nonsense gibberings..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Just now, woody2 said: more nonsense gibberings..... Exactly what we keep trying to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 #sadmanwithamop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, woody2 said: #sadmanwithamop What would I need a mop for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 16 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: What would I need a mop for? you can then go fuck yourself........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 15 minutes ago, woody2 said: you can then go fuck yourself........ Is English your second language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 On 10/12/2017 at 0:09 PM, maynragh said: That’s an interesting take on it. So a decision taken in 1978 will bind anyone within the borders of Spain until such time as any present day majority of those eligible to vote in Spain persuade their represtatives to change it? And that’s what ‘you’ call democracy? It’s not consistent with the concept of democracy as it originally evolved, but I appreciate there are many other factors seeking to manipulate what it means now. By saying they have the choice to acquiesce (Hobson’s Choice) you are essentially agreeing with my assertion. They either accept oppression by an entity that is not the majority to them, or their only other option to achieve self determination is violence - and you’re ok with that because you don’t think they should be allowed to question (not even overrule, simply question) a decision made nearly 40 years ago, in a peaceful manner. Hmmm indeed. I'm sorry but it's difficult to take anyone seriously who uses language like: "They either accept oppression by an entity that is not the majority to them, or their only other option to achieve self determination is violence" This oppressive entity, would that be the government in Madrid who over the last 5 years lent Catalonia some €67bn to improve their prosperity? That's €67bn from general taxation from ALL of Spain. Wow! Just how oppressive is that???!!! Not.... This ignores a very basic tenet: "So a decision taken in 1978 will bind anyone within the borders of Spain until such time as any present day majority of those eligible to vote in Spain persuade their representatives to change it?" Yes it will. Because the rule of law is absolutely essential to a democracy. Something Puigdemont and the rest of his grubby little opportunists have chosen to ignore. The only folks who can change the constitution are the National Government in Madrid. And quite rightly. If Catalonia can persuade the rest of Spain to vote in a government who will change the constitution to their advantage then fair enough. After all, they ALL voted approval in 1978. Puigdemont et al completely ignored 57% in an illegal election and claimed it gave them a mandate. Just how pathetic is that...? I hope Puigdemont and the rest of his appalling chancers are arrested and hung out to dry for all the lumps their fellow Catalans took on their behalf from the legally deployed Guardia. Adios maynragh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynragh Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, P.K. said: I'm sorry but it's difficult to take anyone seriously who uses language like: "They either accept oppression by an entity that is not the majority to them, or their only other option to achieve self determination is violence" This oppressive entity, would that be the government in Madrid who over the last 5 years lent Catalonia some €67bn to improve their prosperity? That's €67bn from general taxation from ALL of Spain. Wow! Just how oppressive is that???!!! Not.... This ignores a very basic tenet: "So a decision taken in 1978 will bind anyone within the borders of Spain until such time as any present day majority of those eligible to vote in Spain persuade their representatives to change it?" Yes it will. Because the rule of law is absolutely essential to a democracy. Something Puigdemont and the rest of his grubby little opportunists have chosen to ignore. The only folks who can change the constitution are the National Government in Madrid. And quite rightly. If Catalonia can persuade the rest of Spain to vote in a government who will change the constitution to their advantage then fair enough. After all, they ALL voted approval in 1978. Puigdemont et al completely ignored 57% in an illegal election and claimed it gave them a mandate. Just how pathetic is that...? I hope Puigdemont and the rest of his appalling chancers are arrested and hung out to dry for all the lumps their fellow Catalans took on their behalf from the legally deployed Guardia. Adios maynragh.... Fair enough. Can you explain or justify your key point... that the rule of law is absolutely essential to a democracy - which is another way of rephrasing a point I’ve already made - that you believe the law to be above the basic principle of democracy. ETA... Leaving aside the issue of what constitutes oppression, and whether the numbers you’ve quoted paint a realistic picture of the relationship between Catalonia and the rest of Spain for the sake of focusing on the core issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 the vote wasn't democratic dumbo...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Catalunya's prosperity is taking quite a hit from the present crisis. At least 540 companies based there have moved their registered HQ outside the community since the 1st October vote. http://www.rtve.es/noticias/20171013/principales-empresas-han-abandonado-cataluna-temor-independencia/1628100.shtml. I presume this is a trend that will continue until the situation is resolved, as Catalan companies risk being marooned outside the EU, facing border controls, tariffs and a bankrupt state. Another upsetting implication for Catalans is that Barça (or any Catalan club) might well not be able to play in La Liga, or qualify for European competitions. But the damage has not just been on the Catalan side. The central government is lowering economic growth forecasts by 2.6% for 2018 and warning of a possible recession caused by the crisis. http://www.rtve.es/noticias/20171013/gobierno-bajara-prevision-del-pib-para-2018-ante-riesgo-recesion-si-sigue-conflicto-catalan/1628180.shtml In short, this has been destructive for Spain and for Catalunya. It is worth bearing in mind that Spain's current democracy is not yet even 40 years old. Fragmentation of the country, and a plunge back into poverty will help no-one and potentially bring a disastrous collapse of the stable democracy that all Spaniards enjoy today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 wait till the eu stop uk-spain trade, it will be in freefall..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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