woody2 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 lets see if puigdemont wimps out again this week..... ballot boxes still haven't been collected and no count has taken place 15 days later.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 1 hour ago, woody2 said: yes it does- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41474674 we only have that in 2014 they paid €10bn extra but from 2012 they have taken an extra €67bn- divide by 4 or 5 years it doesn't matter they are taking more from the state than they put in... the loans are separate and stand at €52bn It's an odd bit of journalism. Why concern over debt to GDP of 34%? Most countries would give eye teeeth for a figure that low. It's half of German debt/GDP, a third of Spanish, a quarter of Italy, a third of France and 40% UK. And again you don't seem to be able to differentiate between current account and capital account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 15 hours ago, Chinahand said: I simply don't believe this is the only option the Catalans had - they've acted illegally, attempted to usurp sovereignty they do not legitimately have and enforce their view by having a vote only their supporters would take part in. That's no way to pass sovereignty from one entity to another, it a recipe for violence and division. I agree the Spanish government are making things worse, but the idea Catalonia is some repressed region giving it some legitimacy to secede is not justifiable. Negotiation is the only legitimate way forward, not UDI based on a flawed ballot. The Spanish are making it worse, but it's the only way they know. They have only two extreme responses to any threat to the unity of Spain. One is to ignore it and hope it goes away. They've tried that for years and the clamour has only got louder. The second is to go in heavy and stamp on it like in the old days, hence you saw voters being beaten and women dragged out of polling stations by their hair. That's the Spanish way. There is no middle ground, no moderation, no finesse. The problem with your assessment, China, is that negotiation is not a way forward. The Catalans, and everyone else really, know that Spain will never, ever change its stance on sovereignty issues. Talking is pointless. It's a matter of national pride in the same way as it is with Gibraltar. I would much prefer Catalonia to remain a part of Spain, but then I'm not a Catalan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Isn't staying as part of Spain the desire of the majority of Catalonian's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 49 minutes ago, quilp said: Isn't staying as part of Spain the desire of the majority of Catalonian's? yes but that wont stop puigdemont..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 5 hours ago, John Wright said: It's an odd bit of journalism. Why concern over debt to GDP of 34%? Most countries would give eye teeeth for a figure that low. It's half of German debt/GDP, a third of Spanish, a quarter of Italy, a third of France and 40% UK. And again you don't seem to be able to differentiate between current account and capital account. its all the same pot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynragh Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 16 hours ago, quilp said: Isn't staying as part of Spain the desire of the majority of Catalonian's? Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. If it is then what’s happening is even more tragic than if they wanted to leave. Simply denying people the right to express an opinion in a non violent way is truly cowerdly, and clearly isn’t going to make anything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 7 hours ago, quilp said: Isn't staying as part of Spain the desire of the majority of Catalonian's? Nobody will know unless Madrid sanctions a vote. And they ain't gonna do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Also, please excuse my curtness. I'm trying to fit an extractor fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said: Why not? Thought you knew everything, Stinky. I'm disappointed. Well, because Spain just doesn't do things like that. I don't normally boil my cabbages twice, but just for you: The Spanish are making it worse, but it's the only way they know. They have only two extreme responses to any threat to the unity of Spain. One is to ignore it and hope it goes away. They've tried that for years and the clamour has only got louder. The second is to go in heavy and stamp on it like in the old days, hence you saw voters being beaten and women dragged out of polling stations by their hair. That's the Spanish way. There is no middle ground, no moderation, no finesse. The problem with your assessment, China, is that negotiation is not a way forward. The Catalans, and everyone else really, know that Spain will never, ever change its stance on sovereignty issues. Talking is pointless. It's a matter of national pride in the same way as it is with Gibraltar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 12 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said: Also, please excuse my curtness. I'm trying to fit an extractor fan. Careful. You can finish up in A & E doing stuff like that late at night. The tales they can tell down there would make your hair stand on end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarne Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 And once again on Monday morning Puigdemont fails to give a clear answer about whether he has declared independence for Catalonia. Quizàs si ... Quizàs no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 the next deadline is this thursday apparently.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 locked up...... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41646142 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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