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Catalonia


woolley

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1 hour ago, woody2 said:

yes it does-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41474674

we only have that in 2014 they paid €10bn extra but from 2012 they have taken an extra €67bn- divide by 4 or 5 years it doesn't matter they are taking more from the state than they put in...

the loans are separate and stand at €52bn

It's an odd bit of journalism. Why concern over debt to GDP of 34%?

Most countries would give eye teeeth for a figure that low. It's half of German debt/GDP, a third of Spanish, a quarter of Italy, a third of France and 40% UK.

And again you don't seem to be able to differentiate between current account and capital account.

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15 hours ago, Chinahand said:

 

I simply don't believe this is the only option the Catalans had - they've acted illegally, attempted to usurp sovereignty they do not legitimately have and enforce their view by having a vote only their supporters would take part in. 

That's no way to pass sovereignty from one entity to another, it a recipe for violence and division.

I agree the Spanish government are making things worse, but the idea Catalonia is some repressed region giving it some legitimacy to secede is not justifiable.  Negotiation is the only legitimate way forward, not UDI based on a flawed ballot.

The Spanish are making it worse, but it's the only way they know. They have only two extreme responses to any threat to the unity of Spain. One is to ignore it and hope it goes away. They've tried that for years and the clamour has only got louder. The second is to go in heavy and stamp on it like in the old days, hence you saw voters being beaten and women dragged out of polling stations by their hair. That's the Spanish way. There is no middle ground, no moderation, no finesse.

The problem with your assessment, China, is that negotiation is not a way forward. The Catalans, and everyone else really, know that Spain will never, ever change its stance on sovereignty issues. Talking is pointless. It's a matter of national pride in the same way as it is with Gibraltar.

I would much prefer Catalonia to remain a part of Spain, but then I'm not a Catalan.

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5 hours ago, John Wright said:

It's an odd bit of journalism. Why concern over debt to GDP of 34%?

Most countries would give eye teeeth for a figure that low. It's half of German debt/GDP, a third of Spanish, a quarter of Italy, a third of France and 40% UK.

And again you don't seem to be able to differentiate between current account and capital account.

its all the same pot....

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16 hours ago, quilp said:

Isn't staying as part of Spain the desire of the majority of Catalonian's? 

Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t. If it is then what’s happening is even more tragic than if they wanted to leave. Simply denying people the right to express an opinion in a non violent way is truly cowerdly, and clearly isn’t going to make anything better. 

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7 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

Why not?

Thought you knew everything, Stinky. I'm disappointed.

Well, because Spain just doesn't do things like that. I don't normally boil my cabbages twice, but just for you:

The Spanish are making it worse, but it's the only way they know. They have only two extreme responses to any threat to the unity of Spain. One is to ignore it and hope it goes away. They've tried that for years and the clamour has only got louder. The second is to go in heavy and stamp on it like in the old days, hence you saw voters being beaten and women dragged out of polling stations by their hair. That's the Spanish way. There is no middle ground, no moderation, no finesse.

The problem with your assessment, China, is that negotiation is not a way forward. The Catalans, and everyone else really, know that Spain will never, ever change its stance on sovereignty issues. Talking is pointless. It's a matter of national pride in the same way as it is with Gibraltar.

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12 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

Also, please excuse my curtness. I'm trying to fit an extractor fan.

Careful. You can finish up in A & E doing stuff like that late at night. The tales they can tell down there would make your hair stand on end.

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