woody2 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 1 hour ago, P.K. said: If it's about the breakup of Spain then surely every Spaniard should have a vote on it...? isn't that what the constitution court said? how long before they get 155...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 1 hour ago, P.K. said: Surely democracy should never be the dictatorship / tyranny of the majority? When Quebec voted for secession the "NO" camp won with 50.58% of the vote. That leaves almost the same amount of folks not getting what they want. Madrid have handled it badly, no question. But why do they think a referendum should be exclusively Catalonia? If it's about the breakup of Spain then surely every Spaniard should have a vote on it...? You mean like every UK citizen having a vote on Scottish independence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarne Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 1 hour ago, P.K. said: If it's about the breakup of Spain then surely every Spaniard should have a vote on it...? Why not the entirity of old Aragon as per the Spanish flag? Then Navarre next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 11 minutes ago, Lxxx said: You mean like every UK citizen having a vote on Scottish independence? every uk citizen should have a vote on if they want to keep paying support to wales,ni and scotland...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Just now, woody2 said: every uk citizen should have a vote on if they want to keep paying support to wales,ni and scotland...... Then every Scottish citizen should have a vote as to whether they will continue to supply gas and oil to the UK... Or start charging rent for having submarines stationed in their waters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 1 minute ago, RIchard Britten said: Then every Scottish citizen should have a vote as to whether they will continue to supply gas and oil to the UK... Or start charging rent for having submarines stationed in their waters... if they owned it they could, sadly the don't...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 1 hour ago, P.K. said: Surely democracy should never be the dictatorship / tyranny of the majority? When Quebec voted for secession the "NO" camp won with 50.58% of the vote. That leaves almost the same amount of folks not getting what they want. Madrid have handled it badly, no question. But why do they think a referendum should be exclusively Catalonia? If it's about the breakup of Spain then surely every Spaniard should have a vote on it...? You question the tyranny of the majority in your first sentence and then propose it in much more tyrannical form in the last. The principle must surely be one of self-determination. The people in an area have the right to determine who governs them, they can't be held hostage to the will of the neighbouring regions not wanting to let them go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lxxx Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Declan said: You question the tyranny of the majority in your first sentence and then propose it in much more tyrannical form in the last. The principle must surely be one of self-determination. The people in an area have the right to determine who governs them, they can't be held hostage to the will of the neighbouring regions not wanting to let them go. Yes I don't think he re-read his post before he clicked Submit Reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 22 minutes ago, Declan said: You question the tyranny of the majority in your first sentence and then propose it in much more tyrannical form in the last. The principle must surely be one of self-determination. The people in an area have the right to determine who governs them, they can't be held hostage to the will of the neighbouring regions not wanting to let them go. I take the strategic view for the whole of Spain. If I was Madrid as my vitally important Western lines of communication go through the Basque Country the last thing I would want is my vitally important Eastern lines of communication going through an independent Catalan. Comprende? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I recognise that it would present a logistical problem for Madrid. But they would have to find a solution that doesn't involve co-opting a people into Spain against their will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 They are already in Spain and therefore subject to Spanish law. It's not just a " logistical" problem either! What would prevent an independent Catalonia imposing tolls? What's to stop them closing the border? I used to drive to Spain quite often and the queues at Le Perthus and Jonkers were legendary. Plus I suspect that all this nationalistic fervour has greed at the bottom of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 17 minutes ago, Declan said: I recognise that it would present a logistical problem for Madrid. But they would have to find a solution that doesn't involve co-opting a people into Spain against their will. its a far left protest nothing more, best ignored....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 3 hours ago, P.K. said: Surely democracy should never be the dictatorship / tyranny of the majority? When Quebec voted for secession the "NO" camp won with 50.58% of the vote. That leaves almost the same amount of folks not getting what they want. Madrid have handled it badly, no question. But why do they think a referendum should be exclusively Catalonia? If it's about the breakup of Spain then surely every Spaniard should have a vote on it...? The principle is fundamentally flawed. You are saying the bigger the country, the less chance there is of a region or state seceding from it. So the Irish Republic could never have left the UK, for example. If, by some miracle, Tibet was to have a vote on independence, should over a billion Chinese vote too? So many examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 1 hour ago, P.K. said: It's not just a " logistical" problem either! What would prevent an independent Catalonia imposing tolls? What's to stop them closing the border? Self-interest for the Catalans. What's stopping Spain from doing that to Portugal? Or Germany to Denmark? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 11 minutes ago, Declan said: Self-interest for the Catalans. What's stopping Spain from doing that to Portugal? Or Germany to Denmark? Errrr maybe there's a trading thingy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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