Declan Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 1 hour ago, P.K. said: Tell me Declan, just how far did Cameron get with that one...? The gov of the day has a duty of care to ALL of it's citizens. I thought I had made it very obvious that strategically secession is a non-starter for purely geographical reasons. Erm ... Cameron convinced the Scottish people that their future lay as part of the UK. All you've done is illustrate why Catalunya is probably better off away from a distant government that only wants to keep it for strategic reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 the scots aren't that daft, free money thats what did it.... spain has invested massively in catalonia, just because some lefty freeloaders come along doesn't mean spain should abandon its constitution...... face it they acted against the law without trying all legal avenues, hopefully the leaders will end up in prison..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 44 minutes ago, Declan said: Erm ... Cameron convinced the Scottish people that their future lay as part of the UK. All you've done is illustrate why Catalunya is probably better off away from a distant government that only wants to keep it for strategic reasons. I meant the appalling Brexit hole Cameron dug for himself and everyone else.... Oh come on Declan, a "distant" government...? You're having a laugh! Can't Madrid be "nationalistic" as well? Give it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Just goes to show. Democracy only happens when the result can be guaranteed to be the one that's wanted by whoever is running said show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 9 hours ago, guzzi said: It isn't a divorce, nor is the EU a nation state. .................... If we had more a more developed EU, with far less importance attached to nation states, then the whole question of national identity ceases to be so problematic. If Catalunya wished to become independent from Spain within such a structure, fiscal and economic integration makes it something of a non-issue for Spain, as their economic well-being would be linked to the whole of Europe. So yes, the crisis does show up the inadequacies of the current EU, in that the union is not deep enough, not democratic enough. Full economic, fiscal and political union is required, and if it is achieved, then conflict becomes irrelevant. Non-starter which would lead to certain war. Why stop there, for that matter? Why not World Government developed from the UN? The bigger they come the harder they fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 the state sponsored bbc angle.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41493014 the state sponsored rt angle.https://www.rt.com/news/405586-thousands-protest-barcelona-catalonia/ oddly, neither seems to even mention the others angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 54 minutes ago, woolley said: Non-starter which would lead to certain war. Why stop there, for that matter? Why not World Government developed from the UN? The bigger they come the harder they fall. Pint of whatever he's been drinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 32 minutes ago, P.K. said: Pint of whatever he's been drinking... If I'd said in 1987 that the Soviet Union would collapse four years later you'd have said the same................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 4 hours ago, Declan said: Catalunya It's Catalonia in English, you ponce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 11 minutes ago, Aristotle said: It's Catalonia in English, you ponce. Like Mallorca/Majorca, the orthography in English is a moot point. I prefer Catalunya as it is a transliteration of the pronunciation in both Catalan and in Castillian Spanish. You twat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 2 hours ago, woolley said: Non-starter which would lead to certain war. Why stop there, for that matter? Why not World Government developed from the UN? The bigger they come the harder they fall. Well, it can't be described as a non-starter as visionaries in Europe made a start in 1958 with the treaty of Rome. Almost 60 years later, the project has widened and deepened via a series of further treaties to include a monetary and a social union, and a body of common legislation, across almost all of Europe. It has many failings, but people of good will and progressive attitudes have absolutely nothing better to put their hopes in. It is without doubt the single most noble international undertaking since the end of the Second World War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Well-Manicured Man Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 1 minute ago, guzzi said: It has many failings, but people of good will and progressive attitudes have absolutely nothing better to put their hopes in. It is without doubt the single most noble international undertaking since the end of the Second World War. Since the Third Reich, to be specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Oh dear: Catalan referendum: Region's independence 'in matter of days' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41493014 Some egotistical nutter seems to be determined to get people hurt.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, guzzi said: It has many failings, but people of good will and progressive attitudes have absolutely nothing better to put their hopes in. It is without doubt the single most noble international undertaking since the end of the Second World War. So it likes to tell us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, The Well-Manicured Man said: Since the Third Reich, to be specific. I'm not quite sure the Third Reich was a suitable vehicle for those of good will and progressive attitudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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