Mr. Sausages Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 34 minutes ago, woolley said: However, "zero tolerance" solves nothing. It doesn't touch the hard core who are the problem but demonises people who are living reasonably within the law. And I stress once more, within the law. If they're living within the law then a zero tolerance approach won't affect them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 21 minutes ago, The Duck of Atholl said: Woolley can you explain how people living within the law are being demonised? +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 15 minutes ago, The Duck of Atholl said: Woolley can you explain how people living within the law are being demonised? DoA, I explained what I am getting at in my post 6.53pm yesterday half way down page 4 (do we not have post numbers on MF nowadays?) so I don't want to bloat by quoting that long post again. If you don't get it from that come back to me. In a nutshell it's to do with the way the law is presented to condition everyone that nothing short of total abstinence is acceptable and that even a drink WITHIN the law makes one a pariah. I think that this is taking it too far, that's all. The position of earlier decades was better. The irresponsible "skinful" merchants who are over or massively over the limit are the ones that need stopping. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 minute ago, woolley said: DoA, I explained what I am getting at in my post 6.53pm yesterday half way down page 4 (do we not have post numbers on MF nowadays?) so I don't want to bloat by quoting that long post again. If you don't get it from that come back to me. In a nutshell it's to do with the way the law is presented to condition everyone that nothing short of total abstinence is acceptable and that even a drink WITHIN the law makes one a pariah. I think that this is taking it too far, that's all. The position of earlier decades was better. The irresponsible "skinful" merchants who are over or massively over the limit are the ones that need stopping. Don't agree Woolley. A lot of people function quite alright having had just one drink whilst some will not be. Far better to cut out the problem altogether and have a zero tolerance. Downside is that it hits a large number of pubs and businesses are closing. If you feel you must have a drink then either walk or use a taxi/bus. I cycle a lot and would rather not be hit by that car driver who can't handle one drink 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 25 minutes ago, The Duck of Atholl said: Woolley can you explain how people living within the law are being demonised? Could this also have something to do with the price? I live five minutes from a small expensively refurbished posh pub (Admiral J McHardy) in an urban area by two bus stops and its £3.80 a pint and the rest is silly money. So few people use it the atmosphere is more like a private club. I refuse to pay £3.80 and down the road there is a rough pub and that is £4.25...Consequence is I have stopped drinking totally unless it is a formal event with best bib and tucker and then it is wine, port and cognac. Just not worth it anymore.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Entitled to your opinion, Neil. Obviously we don't agree on this. Of course I am all for road safety but I think, and it has been proven, that there are far greater hazards to life and limb on the road than a proficient driver within the legal limit. I believe this is a reasonable, pragmatic stance on the matter in a world that is full of risk. If we are going for zero tolerance with messianic zeal, then we should be doing the same with other risks on the road such as some elderly people who are less aware sober then other people are blind drunk. People who cannot see properly. People who are on the phone (hands free or otherwise) and might be having a row with the wife or a dressing down from the boss. It seems unbalanced to me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: Could this also have something to do with the price? I live five minutes from a small expensively refurbished posh pub (Admiral J McHardy) in an urban area by two bus stops and its £3.80 a pint and the rest is silly money. So few people use it the atmosphere is more like a private club. I refuse to pay £3.80 and down the road there is a rough pub and that is £4.25...Consequence is I have stopped drinking totally unless it is a formal event with best bib and tucker and then it is wine, port and cognac. Just not worth it anymore.... Of course this is a factor, Barrie, as well as generational differences of opinion about what constitutes a good time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 22 minutes ago, Neil Down said: Don't agree Woolley. A lot of people function quite alright having had just one drink whilst some will not be. Far better to cut out the problem altogether and have a zero tolerance. Downside is that it hits a large number of pubs and businesses are closing. If you feel you must have a drink then either walk or use a taxi/bus. I cycle a lot and would rather not be hit by that car driver who can't handle one drink cyclists don't count, they pay no road tax..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellefield Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 17 minutes ago, Barrie Stevens said: Could this also have something to do with the price? I live five minutes from a small expensively refurbished posh pub (Admiral J McHardy) in an urban area by two bus stops and its £3.80 a pint and the rest is silly money. So few people use it the atmosphere is more like a private club. I refuse to pay £3.80 and down the road there is a rough pub and that is £4.25...Consequence is I have stopped drinking totally unless it is a formal event with best bib and tucker and then it is wine, port and cognac. Just not worth it anymore.... I suspect the Admiral J McHardy will go bust soon, not because of the prices, but because of the pretentious name. This doesn't sound like a proper old pub name, so I'm guessing it was changed as part of the refurb? Or at least recently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, woody2 said: cyclists don't count, they pay no road tax..... zip it clownpants... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 22 minutes ago, woolley said: Entitled to your opinion, Neil. Obviously we don't agree on this. Of course I am all for road safety but I think, and it has been proven, that there are far greater hazards to life and limb on the road than a proficient driver within the legal limit. I believe this is a reasonable, pragmatic stance on the matter in a world that is full of risk. If we are going for zero tolerance with messianic zeal, then we should be doing the same with other risks on the road such as some elderly people who are less aware sober then other people are blind drunk. People who cannot see properly. People who are on the phone (hands free or otherwise) and might be having a row with the wife or a dressing down from the boss. It seems unbalanced to me. The other major downfall Woolley is the habits of those drinking now. When I was younger, we'd be in the pubs first then move on to the Lido. Now the youngsters drink at home then come out to play around 11pm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, Neil Down said: The other major downfall Woolley is the habits of those drinking now. When I was younger, we'd be in the pubs first then move on to the Lido. Now the youngsters drink at home then come out to play around 11pm True. And they are loaded before they leave home. I kind of sympathise with them on the cost of drinking out though. You could get well rolling on a quid in the 70s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Bellefield said: I suspect the Admiral J McHardy will go bust soon, not because of the prices, but because of the pretentious name. This doesn't sound like a proper old pub name, so I'm guessing it was changed as part of the refurb? Or at least recently? Originally known as Alma Inn. http://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/chelmsfords-historic-adrimal-j-mchardy-597329 (I wonder who the customer was that told them about there being a lot of history and the Royal Engineers' mess hall. ) Edited October 13, 2017 by woolley 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 24 minutes ago, Neil Down said: The other major downfall Woolley is the habits of those drinking now. When I was younger, we'd be in the pubs first then move on to the Lido. Now the youngsters drink at home then come out to play around 11pm thats been like that for the last 30 years..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 29 minutes ago, Neil Down said: zip it clownpants... do clowns have zips on their pants...... #fakenews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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