Jasper Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 8 minutes ago, quilp said: Just looking at those results it would suggest the catholic south voted strongly in favour also. 1 minute ago, mojomonkey said: They were a long way off the top here in Baden Württemberg, but the two vote system here in Germany makes understanding results a bit more complicated. German politics has a lot more parties then other countries, hence why coalitions are the norm. Going back to the point, the AFD are not good news for anyone. It is truly bizarre that Llap thinks they are. AfD is a natural reaction to Mad Merkel's open door policy that is destroying Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Just now, Jasper said: AfD is a natural reaction to Mad Merkel's open door policy that is destroying Europe. Very overly simplistic analysis, their rise is much more complicated than that. Come in then, you claim to be closer to whee the action is taking place. What do you mean by that? Where do you live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 50 minutes ago, mojomonkey said: Going back to the point, the AFD are not good news for anyone. Well, once again, imprecise, imo. There is no doubt that nationalism and right-wing 'populist' feelings are on the rise. Right across Europe, not just Germany. A lot of countries have experienced the same burgeoning trend in nationalist feeling and this has been reflected in the voting in those countries. A considerable amount of Germans obviously don't agree with you and voted for the AfD to represent them. More people, year on year since its inception, the figures suggest. Was that guy (Benke?) really being anti-Semitic when he suggested that Germans should come to terms with the 'cult of guilt' that pervades its national identity and move on from the monuments to shame, etc. His statements were hijacked spectacularly by the far-left, anti-fascist groups who went to town using a steamroller of left-wing media labelism, publicising their claims of anti-Semitism against him; claims refuted by some outspoken German Jews who saw nothing anti-semitic in his comments as they are proud Germans also and understand his nationalist pride. Can't provide an unbiased link to his (Bunke?) statements but read what he said for yourself. Was he being anti-semitic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 9 hours ago, mojomonkey said: Very overly simplistic analysis, their rise is much more complicated than that. Come in then, you claim to be closer to whee the action is taking place. What do you mean by that? Where do you live? Amongst the people who are waking up to what is taking place in Europe and are doing something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 11 hours ago, the stinking enigma said: I think it's better to call a train the anne frank than the adolph eichmann. I don't see what the fuss is about. its nothing new in germany... siemens used slave labourers to them help construct the gas chambers, back in 2002 they tried to register the word zyklon* for a new range of gas ovens..... (* zyklon b was the poison gas used in nazi gas chambers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, woody2 said: its nothing new in germany... siemens used slave labourers to them help construct the gas chambers, back in 2002 they tried to register the word zyklon* for a new range of gas ovens..... (* zyklon b was the poison gas used in nazi gas chambers) A great many people, probably the majority of German people, were totally unaware of what the Nazis were doing. Indeed had it not been for the appalling result of the Treaty of Versailles there would not have even been a rise of a nationalist party in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 7 minutes ago, Jasper said: A great many people, probably the majority of German people, were totally unaware of what the Nazis were doing. Indeed had it not been for the appalling result of the Treaty of Versailles there would not have even been a rise of a nationalist party in Germany. don't believe that for a second.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 24 minutes ago, Jasper said: A great many people, probably the majority of German people, were totally unaware of what the Nazis were doing. Indeed had it not been for the appalling result of the Treaty of Versailles there would not have even been a rise of a nationalist party in Germany. German extreme Nationalism and widespread anti-Semitism in particular long pre-dates WW1. Modern research and surveys have demonstrated that there was widespread knowledge of what the Nazis were doing (which is exactly what they had repeatedly said they would do). Wikipedia is obviously not a definitive source but is a very good place to start. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_Holocaust#The_German_people Quote During the years 1945 through 1949, polls indicated that a majority of Germans felt that Nazism was a "good idea, badly applied". In a poll conducted in the American German occupation zone, 37% replied that 'the extermination of the Jews and Poles and other non-Aryans was necessary for the security of Germans' Quote Robert Gellately, a historian at Oxford University, conducted a widely respected survey of the German media before and during the war and concluded that there was substantial participation and consent from large numbers of ordinary Germans in various aspects of the Holocaust, that German civilians frequently saw columns of slave laborers, and that the basics of the concentration camps, if not the extermination camps, were widely known.[31] The German scholar, Peter Longerich, in a study looking at what Germans knew about the mass murders concluded that: "General information concerning the mass murder of Jews was widespread in the German population."[32] The British Historian Nicholas Stargardt presents evidence of widespread knowledge, agreement and collusion in the destruction of European Jewry, as well of the insane, feeble, disabled, Poles, Roma and other nationals.[33] His evidence includes speeches by Nazi leaders,[34] which were broadcast or heard by a wide audience that included mention or inferences concerning the plans to destroy the Jews, along with letters written between soldiers and their families describing the slaughter.[35] Historian Claudia Koonz relates how reports of the SD described public opinion as favorable where it concerned the killing of Jews;[36] one must take into consideration the possible extent to which SD reports were evaluated and/or manipulated by the Nazi propaganda machine however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 There is absolutely nothing uniquely German when it comes to hatred of the jew in Europe including amongst the Brits. An example is the way that the MS St. Lewis was treated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 4 out of 5 workers in germany at the time were slaves, to claim they didn't know is false...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llap Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 13 hours ago, mojomonkey said: That makes supporting the rise of the AFD even more bizarre. They have proven anti-Semites in their elite ranks. Notwithstanding that, I fully support people being aware of the atrocities I'd the Third Reich and the Holocaust but in my book that isn't something a five year old should know anything about. The term "anti-semite" is thrown around all the time by left-wingers. It no longer means a damn thing thanks to them diluting it. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen someone in the media called an anti-semite, based on zero evidence. It just gets thrown in their along with racist, homophobe, islamophobe, etc. This does a great disservice to the Jewish people and genuine victims of anti-semitism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, woody2 said: 4 out of 5 workers in germany at the time were slaves, to claim they didn't know is false...... The majority of the German people were unaware of the extermination camps run by a clique within the Nazi party. Just as the majority of the Allies civil population were and still are unaware of the Rheinwiesenlager extermination camps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llap Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 22 minutes ago, Jasper said: There is absolutely nothing uniquely German when it comes to hatred of the jew in Europe including amongst the Brits. An example is the way that the MS St. Lewis was treated. I couldn't agree more. In fact, right up until Weimar Republic, Germany was arguably one of the safest and best places for Jews in the whole of Europe. Hatred of Jews in Europe goes back to the Roman Empire and continued all over Europe up until this day. There is nothing uniquely endemic to Germany which lends itself to a higher level of anti-semitism than any other European country. Let's also not forget that the majority of Jews who perished in the Holocaust were not within Germany, but outside of it, and their rounding up was largely due to the indigenous power structures collaborating with the Germans at the national and local level. Had the Germans simply invaded and had no assistance, they'd never have known who was or wasn't a Jew. The attempt to blame it all on Germany is just European and also Muslim whitewashing of their own guilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llap Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Hundreds of thousands of Jews were rounded up and put in concentration camps in Britain during WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 A lot of the pogroms carried out as the germans spread east were actually carried out by citizens of the countries germany had taken over. That's a fact and it's not a woody one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.