More shootings in the U.S.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Sausages said:

Been a few weeks since the last one.  Those journalists are the enemy of the people though.  I heard the president say that.

The number of mass shootings in the USA is fairly shocking http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

[RIchard Britten]

9 hours ago, Mr. Sausages said:

Annapolis shooting: Several dead in attack on US newspaper http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44645986

 

Comes two days after former Breibart Senior Editor Milo Yiannopoulos made a statement about "'...couldn't wait for vigilantes to start shooting journalists...".

So the shooter, an angry white guy with anger issues (lost a law suit against the newspaper he attacked) and a problem with women (he was arrested for stalking women on Facebook)...

Exactly the kind of people who should have easy access to firearms.

 

From ABC News:

"US President Donald Trump has been briefed on the shooting, White House spokeswoman Lindsay Walters said.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with all that are affected," she said."

Edited June 29, 2018 by RIchard Britten

[Chinahand]

10 hours ago, Freggyragh said:

Let me guess ... was the terrorist white?

I don't think the person who committed this atrocity was a terrorist; plus with a name like Ramos, though he seems to be classified in an American political sense as white I presume not too far down the ancestral male line was someone unconnected with WASPs.

Political violence is different from personal violence.  If the reports about him are true (a big and important if, but the behaviour of this person seems to be a matter of public record) his actions are down to a personal grudge.

America is increasingly becoming an honour society where machismo and violence can be seen as having relevance to how a person behaves, and everything and anything can be squeezed into the box labelled Political, but this person was swimming within that society and not using violence to change any policies.  He was just an angry man with a grudge who thinks a gun is a solution to a problem.

That isn't terrorism, however terrible the results.

 

[RIchard Britten]

1 hour ago, Chinahand said:

I don't think the person who committed this atrocity was a terrorist; plus with a name like Ramos, though he seems to be classified in an American political sense as white I presume not too far down the ancestral male line was someone unconnected with WASPs.

Political violence is different from personal violence.  If the reports about him are true (a big and important if, but the behaviour of this person seems to be a matter of public record) his actions are down to a personal grudge.

America is increasingly becoming an honour society where machismo and violence can be seen as having relevance to how a person behaves, and everything and anything can be squeezed into the box labelled Political, but this person was swimming within that society and not using violence to change any policies.  He was just an angry man with a grudge who thinks a gun is a solution to a problem.

That isn't terrorism, however terrible the results.

 

Using violence to exhort terror and fear against someone for political or personal gain...ISIS or white guy with a grudge?

[Neil Down]

Seems like he had a grudge against this newspaper

[Mr. Sausages]

No shit.

[Albert Tatlock]

That nation seems to be good at killing themselves...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/06/24/almost-16000-us-service-members-have-died-since-2006-mostly-in-united-states.html

"Almost 16,000 US service members have died since 2006, mostly in the United States"

[Chinahand]

9 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said:

Using violence to exhort terror and fear against someone for political or personal gain...ISIS or white guy with a grudge?

Oh goodness, do you really have such a shallow view?  Do you really see no difference in these two situations?

What isn't terrorism if you take that view?  Is it simply the scale of the violence?  Or is all or any violence terrorism?

I fully admit America is such a dysfunctional society that it can be difficult to initially distinguish between someone "going postal" and a terrorist attack, but there is a genuine difference between the two.

Do you understand why ISIS is more dangerous than a solitary white guy with a grudge? 

There are violent domestic terrorist groups in the US - some of them based on white racism - but it looks like this particular guy wasn't a terrorist and to use the term terrorist to describe him isn't useful.

In reality America has a far bigger problem with people committing violence due to its societal failings than from terrorism.  If only it would admit that it might be able to start improving itself.

In my opinion, calling everything terrorism doesn't result in the self-reflective view point needed.

[the stinking enigma]

This was only mildy peturbing for those hiding under their desks, barely scarey, certainly not terrifying. We wont get to know their back stories 

[Mr. Sausages]

The reason they weren't scared is they're barely human.  They're enemies of the people, and the biggest threat America faces.

[woody2]

5 hours ago, RIchard Britten said:

 an angry white guy with anger issues (lost a law suit against the newspaper he attacked) and a problem with women (he was arrested for stalking women on Facebook)...

but less about you......

[RIchard Britten]

1 hour ago, Chinahand said:

Do you understand why ISIS is more dangerous than a solitary white guy with a grudge? 

Number of Americans killed in the US by ISIS vs number of Americans killed in the US by solitary white guys with grudges...which is more dangerous?

(I'll give you a clue...its not ISIS).

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by RIchard Britten

[RIchard Britten]

1 hour ago, Chinahand said:

In my opinion, calling everything terrorism doesn't result in the self-reflective view point needed.

But don't you see, the angry white guy movement (the alt-right, Incels, Trumpets, call them what you will) isn't as isolated as it first appears.

They are growing in numbers and "confidence".

When that guy in Charlottesville ran down a crowd of people, the alt-right were cheering him on for his act.

Looking at these events in isolation is ignoring the trend.

[Mr. Sausages]

They published their paper today. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44654077

[Chinahand]

1 hour ago, RIchard Britten said:

Number of Americans killed in the US by ISIS vs number of Americans killed in the US by solitary white guys with grudges...which is more dangerous?

(I'll give you a clue...its not ISIS).

 

I had already said this:

3 hours ago, Chinahand said:

In reality America has a far bigger problem with people committing violence due to its societal failings than from terrorism.  If only it would admit that it might be able to start improving itself.

But ISIS is a far bigger threat overall - it isn't just an issue for the US, but is a global phenomenon - it isn't in America where you need to look for the dangers of ISIS, but in the towns and communities in the Euphrates valley where they have enslaved and killed in the 10s if not 100s of thousands those it considered K'fir.

I've raised repeatedly that the US is totally inured to levels of violence in its society which would be totally unacceptable elsewhere in the developed world.  That is the water that this man swam in.  Terrorism has a very specific meaning and there are domestic terrorists in the US - KKK and other white supremacists, religious fundamentalists bombing abortion clinics, even radical animal rights groups who are willing to bomb doctors involved in animal testing - but this man was not a terrorist; he's a symptom of a violent society.

A poor, but close analogy is the number of people killed everyday in a city due to road accidents - not an insignificant number, but deemed politically acceptable.  If a lion escaped from the zoo it would kill fewer people than died in road accidents, but it is understandable that the authorities place more acute measures in to capture the lion than end road accidents.

America needs to concentrate more on the road accidents than the lion - the societal consequences of gun-ownership, rather than the dangers of terrorism, I'm not disagreeing with that, but he isn't some part of an organised group which at the centre of its ideology is the violent destruction of whole communities.

That would be a worthwhile debate, though.  Many people on the left do use the word fascist to describe the American Right.  I feel that is overblown and reflects the coarsening of political language in the age of Trump.  Do you really see some fascist threat emerging on the right in the US?  I'm not convinced but am deeply concerned that this is a part of the total polarisation and dysfunction within US politics.