Opera, High Arts, and British Politics.

[Manximus Aururaneus]

Despite loving the science of high quality audio, and high quality voices (e.g. Barbara Streisand et al), I have to admit that, whilst I have a vague understanding of Opera, Classical music, and other 'high end' arts, I do not have the skills to fully understand them.

The same can be said of my opinion of ex-Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne - I appreciate what a high position he achieved, but was less than impressed with what he did with it.

I therefore find it somewhat strange that I agree with his conundrum regarding the attitude of the Brits to Opera.  He said this;

Also asked about his apparent reluctance to be publicly seen enjoying opera while he was Chancellor, Mr Osborne said there was a "curious reverse snobbery" in Britain which meant it was more acceptable to go to a football match than enjoy the arts.

"There's nothing wrong - far from it, there are a lot of things right - with going to the opera, going to the theatre," he said.

"Somehow the British political culture still frowns on that "I remember once when I was Chancellor going to see the Ring cycle at Covent Garden - Wagner's operas. I saw the first two and then one of Britain's best selling newspapers had a real go at me, saying  'what's he doing  going to the opera?'

"I was struck by the comparison in Germany where the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel opens every year the Bayreuther Festspiele, the Wagner festival, where she goes as the Chancellor of Germany and everyone in the nation, as far as I can see, thinks that's the correct thing to do."

 

Why is it, do you think, that comparatively 'right wing' countries  like Britain see going to the Opera as snobbish, whilst comparatively left-wing countries such as France, Russia, and even Merkels' eastern version of Germany see the Opera as 'For the masses'?

[the stinking enigma]

It's because the general population of britain are stupid enough to become "right wing" even though in most cases it's against their interests in reality. So while they don't like the rich they hate the poor even more. It makes them feel better about themselves

[P.K.]

The Barclay brothers printed this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/26/partisan-brexit-become-tory-leader-says-george-osborne/

[woody2]

 

[woody2]

its not our culture......

[John Wright]

I don’t think it’s anything to do with left or right. It may be an inverse snobbery.

opera is amazingly diverse. I went to the Opera North season in Hull in October. 6 one act operas. From 1860’s to 1960’s. Many with readily recognisable tunes, having been used in films or adverts.

As for opera not being “our culture” that’s just another Woody (fake) factoid.

many composers lived in London and had their works premiered there. There were dozens of  British Victorian composers who wrote very successful opera, Sullivan, Balfe. 

Every town had a Theatre with a pit designated Opers House. Douglas had 2. The New Opera House ( Now the Palace Cinema) and the Gaiety Theatre & Opera House.

there are dozens of 20th century and contemporary British opera composers, Walton, Birtwhistle, Britten, etc.

[the stinking enigma]

i can afford to go to the opera. it's just i can't afford the clothes to get me in there

[paswt]

You'd hate it Stinky , too much singing! 

[woody2]

12 minutes ago, John Wright said:

I don’t think it’s anything to do with left or right. It may be an inverse snobbery.

opera is amazingly diverse. I went to the Opera North season in Hull in October. 6 one act operas. From 1860’s to 1960’s. Many with readily recognisable tunes, having been used in films or adverts.

As for opera not being “our culture” that’s just another Woody (fake) factoid.

many composers lived in London and had their works premiered there. There were dozens of  British Victorian composers who wrote very successful opera, Sullivan, Balfe. 

Every town had a Theatre with a pit designated Opers House. Douglas had 2. The New Opera House ( Now the Palace Cinema) and the Gaiety Theatre & Opera House.

there are dozens of 20th century and contemporary British opera composers, Walton, Birtwhistle, Britten, etc.

its a quote from the clip.....

[Declan]

I think it’s a fair point actually. It’s never been part of the general culture here in the way it has Austria etc. Or the way Shakespeare permeates English speaking culture. 

 

 

[pongo]

Classical and post classical music is very much part of British culture. In many cases pieces by European composers were performed in Britain soon after they were first written. And some pieces were first performed in Britain. Handel’s Messiah for example was first performed in Dublin (when Ireland was effectively part of Britain).

I think that poor education is a big part of it today. And populist suspicion of anything with a whiff of intellectualism in general. Perhaps that is why modern music has never gained ground in quite the same way as it has in the US. If you visit the ballet in Russia - it’s ordinary working people and their families in the audience.

It’s nice detail of history that Beethoven became so associatied with the BBC broadcasts to the continent during WW2.

[woody2]

you have to wonder why it needs so much government subsidy since its such a success

the merkels lot spend even more......

[pongo]

17 minutes ago, woody2 said:

you have to wonder why it needs so much government subsidy since its such a success

The arts and artists have always been supported by governments, nobility, big business etc. Not everything important is going to turn a profit. And some aspects of the arts and ideas in general are inevitably almost elitist, certainly difficult at first. It often takes a while for clever ideas to be accepted.

[woody2]

13 minutes ago, pongo said:

The arts and artists have always been supported by governments, nobility, big business etc. Not everything important is going to turn a profit. And some aspects of the arts and ideas in general are inevitably almost elitist, certainly difficult at first. It often takes a while for clever ideas to be accepted.

its not important and how many 100's of years does it need to be "accepted"......

[pongo]

1 minute ago, woody2 said:

its not important and how many 100's of years does it need to be "accepted"......

What’s not important? Opera specifically or music and the arts in general?

Personally I believe that it is all important and that it is important that we have an establishment which recognises the value of the arts and new ideas. But then I am not anti - establishment. I believe that to be anti - establishment is fundamentally also anti - social.