Plans for lord street

[the stinking enigma]

70% booze tax in Dehli.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/05/india-imposes-70-alcohol-tax-as-covid-19-lockdown-relaxed

Edited May 6, 2020 by the stinking enigma

[TheTeapot]

4 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

Why would you do that when it is so cheap to buy?

That's another stupid stupid argument.

[Roger Mexico]

4 minutes ago, Manximus Aururaneus said:

How much tax / tips would a table of 10 pay on a meal with booze at say £100 per head?

But most money that comes in from hotels is from the rooms side and that (and bed and breakfast) only attracts 5% VAT not 20%.  And most hotel restaurants aren't particularly famous for their cuisine - they tend to be used by guests who can't be bothered to find anywhere better.

So you need to look at the restaurant business as a separate trade.  And it's a pretty precarious one, wherever you are, unless you can find a particular niche with a regular clientele.  And that applies even more so on the Island with only a small population to draw on and no real history of an eating-out culture.   Even a really good place may find they are only busy on Fridays and Saturdays.   There's simply not enough demand to sustain a large number of high-quality restaurants and unlike some rural areas in the UK where they have developed, there's not a large population a few hours drive away to draw on in a way that enables restaurants to become a destination in their own right.  And business-related travel has been in decline for years and the latest crisis may kill off most of the top-end stuff permanently[1].

So, as with the building trade, catering isn't really the big contributor to VAT that people think it is.  It wouldn't surprise me if the biggest payer in the sector was McDonald's.

 

[1]  A lot of 'business' travel isn't actually what people think it is (mega-paid people in suits flying around) but workmen travelling to do specialist jobs.

[Manximus Aururaneus]

3 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

But most money that comes in from hotels is from the rooms side and that (and bed and breakfast) only attracts 5% VAT not 20%.  And most hotel restaurants aren't particularly famous for their cuisine - they tend to be used by guests who can't be bothered to find anywhere better.

So you need to look at the restaurant business as a separate trade.  And it's a pretty precarious one, wherever you are, unless you can find a particular niche with a regular clientele.  And that applies even more so on the Island with only a small population to draw on and no real history of an eating-out culture.   Even a really good place may find they are only busy on Fridays and Saturdays.   There's simply not enough demand to sustain a large number of high-quality restaurants and unlike some rural areas in the UK where they have developed, there's not a large population a few hours drive away to draw on in a way that enables restaurants to become a destination in their own right.  And business-related travel has been in decline for years and the latest crisis may kill off most of the top-end stuff permanently[1].

So, as with the building trade, catering isn't really the big contributor to VAT that people think it is.  It wouldn't surprise me if the biggest payer in the sector was McDonald's.

 

[1]  A lot of 'business' travel isn't actually what people think it is (mega-paid people in suits flying around) but workmen travelling to do specialist jobs.

Agreed (I sold out of the hospitality business in 2005).

So keep it as it is (and buy a bucket) or try to change things?

Edited May 6, 2020 by Manximus Aururaneus

[Donald Trumps]

7 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

But most money that comes in from hotels is from the rooms side and that (and bed and breakfast) only attracts 5% VAT not 20%.  And most hotel restaurants aren't particularly famous for their cuisine - they tend to be used by guests who can't be bothered to find anywhere better.

So you need to look at the restaurant business as a separate trade.  And it's a pretty precarious one, wherever you are, unless you can find a particular niche with a regular clientele.  And that applies even more so on the Island with only a small population to draw on and no real history of an eating-out culture.   Even a really good place may find they are only busy on Fridays and Saturdays.   There's simply not enough demand to sustain a large number of high-quality restaurants and unlike some rural areas in the UK where they have developed, there's not a large population a few hours drive away to draw on in a way that enables restaurants to become a destination in their own right.  And business-related travel has been in decline for years and the latest crisis may kill off most of the top-end stuff permanently[1].

So, as with the building trade, catering isn't really the big contributor to VAT that people think it is.  It wouldn't surprise me if the biggest payer in the sector was McDonald's.

 

[1]  A lot of 'business' travel isn't actually what people think it is (mega-paid people in suits flying around) but workmen travelling to do specialist jobs.

Yes, anecdotally only 2% of the adult population eat out on a regular basis (once a week & more)

In London this is a huge market

On the Isle of Man it is not

ps. As food purchases are zero-rated, restaurants end up being an unpaid VAT tax collecters - makes running a business in a sector prone to cash flow problems even more difficult

Edited May 6, 2020 by Donald Trumps

[Andy Onchan]

34 minutes ago, Donald Trumps said:

Yes, anecdotally only 2% of the adult population eat out on a regular basis (once a week & more)

In London this is a huge market

On the Isle of Man it is not

ps. As food purchases are zero-rated, restaurants end up being an unpaid VAT tax collecters - makes running a business in a sector prone to cash flow problems even more difficult

I've said it before but I'll say it again... VAT is an iniquitous and inequitable tax. It's free money for the government, they don't have to do anything or provide any service to earn it.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

54 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

That's another stupid stupid argument.

It isn't really.  You could only think that if you actually ARE stupid.

[TheTeapot]

1 minute ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

It isn't really.  You could only think that if you actually ARE stupid.

Don't make stuff yourself if it is cheap in the shops? It's a retarded attitude. It's like saying I'll not bother growing carrots this year cos I can get a 2lb bag for a quid at shoprite. You're a fool.

[Neil Down]

1 hour ago, Donald Trumps said:

Restaurants in hotels & out usually put a compulsory 10% service charge on bills for tables of ten nowadays - rarely this goes to the serving staff concerned, & some unscrupulous operators use it to pay wages

Sensible eaters tend to give these places a miss.

[Neil Down]

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

That's another stupid stupid argument.

I think you'll find it was a question...

[TheTeapot]

8 minutes ago, Neil Down said:

I think you'll find it was a question...

If it had been from a normal poster I may have considered answering it. Not that I should need to when the answer is so obvious.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

Don't make stuff yourself if it is cheap in the shops? It's a retarded attitude. It's like saying I'll not bother growing carrots this year cos I can get a 2lb bag for a quid at shoprite. You're a fool.

The only thing retarded is that you think making your own ale to save VAT is sensible when you can buy it so cheaply.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

37 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

If it had been from a normal poster I may have considered answering it. Not that I should need to when the answer is so obvious.

How do you mean "normal"?

Normal like you?

[TheTeapot]

24 minutes ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

The only thing retarded is that you think making your own ale to save VAT is sensible when you can buy it so cheaply.

There's so much wrong with this. Again. 

Firstly, I'm not making beer.

Second, its a hobby. Everyone needs a hobby.

Thirdly, the point isn't to save VAT, that just happens to be a bonus.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

3 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

There's so much wrong with this. Again. 

Firstly, I'm not making beer.

Second, its a hobby. Everyone needs a hobby.

Thirdly, the point isn't to save VAT, that just happens to be a bonus.

The discussion was about VAT on eating out and drinking.