Plans for lord street

[Andy Onchan]

4 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

I thought they got the Lord Street site cheap because of their great plans. 

Plans are one thing..... having the money to carry it out  is another.

[2112]

6 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

 Nothing will happen on the Lord St site for at least another 5 years.

Douglas get ready for continued dereliction. I can’t see Douglas Council or IOMG getting tough with the developers of these sites. It’s pitiful really, sadly Douglas has been left to rot for a while, and the Council are naive in its dealings with prospective developers. IOMG are not transparent either. Perhaps there should be clauses written into the contract, ensuring development commenced within a certain timescale, and the land can’t be turned back into a car park

 

[Roger Mexico]

52 minutes ago, 2112 said:

Douglas get ready for continued dereliction. I can’t see Douglas Council or IOMG getting tough with the developers of these sites. It’s pitiful really, sadly Douglas has been left to rot for a while, and the Council are naive in its dealings with prospective developers. IOMG are not transparent either. Perhaps there should be clauses written into the contract, ensuring development commenced within a certain timescale, and the land can’t be turned back into a car park

Just a clarification.  Douglas Council have been dreadful of course, but they can't be blamed for this one.  That particular car park (technically called Parade Street West) was owned and run by the DoI.

[Gladys]

4 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Just a clarification.  Douglas Council have been dreadful of course, but they can't be blamed for this one.  That particular car park (technically called Parade Street West) was owned and run by the DoI.

That's fine then. 

[Declan]

On 8/14/2018 at 3:38 PM, John Wright said:

It'll be up and running for the summer season of 2021.

 

On 8/14/2018 at 3:48 PM, Declan said:

We'll see. 

 

[Feelslike]

On 7/18/2020 at 7:01 PM, 2112 said:

Douglas get ready for continued dereliction. I can’t see Douglas Council or IOMG getting tough with the developers of these sites. It’s pitiful really, sadly Douglas has been left to rot for a while, and the Council are naive in its dealings with prospective developers. IOMG are not transparent either. Perhaps there should be clauses written into the contract, ensuring development commenced within a certain timescale, and the land can’t be turned back into a car park

 

They only actually took legal possession of the site at the end of April/start of May. Again, what exactly are you expecting them to do in that period of time? 

The money they have already spent on the development is a risk, you'd be an exceptionally foolish business person to go all in on design, fees, building regs submissions and tendering before you'd even finalised the purchase. Even after purchase, it can takes months to get a project of any size to site, let alone one like this. 

I'm not even slightly surprised it hasn't started yet, and I'm less surprised that they have chosen to make money by letting an existing giant car park out as a giant car park, until they are actually ready to put machines on the site. It's ridiculous to think they wouldn't!? 

The proof is in the pudding, but talking it down at this point in time just makes you look like you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Even if you are proven right, it won't be because you actually know anything about the process. You are just making assumptions based on nothing in particular, other than a dislike for Government and how they do things. 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Feelslike

[Andy Onchan]

6 hours ago, Feelslike said:

They only actually took legal possession of the site at the end of April/start of May. Again, what exactly are you expecting them to do in that period of time? 

The money they have already spent on the development is a risk, you'd be an exceptionally foolish business person to go all in on design, fees, building regs submissions and tendering before you'd even finalised the purchase. Even after purchase, it can takes months to get a project of any size to site, let alone one like this. 

I'm not even slightly surprised it hasn't started yet, and I'm less surprised that they have chosen to make money by letting an existing giant car park out as a giant car park, until they are actually ready to put machines on the site. It's ridiculous to think they wouldn't!? 

The proof is in the pudding, but talking it down at this point in time just makes you look like you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Even if you are proven right, it won't be because you actually know anything about the process. You are just making assumptions based on nothing in particular, other than a dislike for Government and how they do things. 

Even so, nothing will happen for the next 5 years. Douglas and other towns on Mann are littered with the equivalent of bomb sites. some even when the Island was awash with money. No one seems to care about the built environment or the picture that it paints to visitors etc. Thank goodness we have the countryside to compensate for it.

[Feelslike]

9 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Even so, nothing will happen for the next 5 years. Douglas and other towns on Mann are littered with the equivalent of bomb sites. some even when the Island was awash with money. No one seems to care about the built environment or the picture that it paints to visitors etc. Thank goodness we have the countryside to compensate for it.

Even if nothing happens within five years (and it'll have to or the money spent on getting planning permission will have been wasted) they are perfectly within their right not to start. 

Can you give examples from around the island of these bomb sites? Bit hard to discuss otherwise. 

[Donald Trumps]

21 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Even so, nothing will happen for the next 5 years. Douglas and other towns on Mann are littered with the equivalent of bomb sites. some even when the Island was awash with money. No one seems to care about the built environment or the picture that it paints to visitors etc. Thank goodness we have the countryside to compensate for it.

Let us hope the next government doesn't encourage developers to pour concrete all over it

 

[Roger Mexico]

6 hours ago, Feelslike said:

I'm not even slightly surprised it hasn't started yet, and I'm less surprised that they have chosen to make money by letting an existing giant car park out as a giant car park, until they are actually ready to put machines on the site. It's ridiculous to think they wouldn't!? 

The proof is in the pudding, but talking it down at this point in time just makes you look like you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Even if you are proven right, it won't be because you actually know anything about the process. You are just making assumptions based on nothing in particular, other than a dislike for Government and how they do things. 

The true voice of the Manx Establishment.  Even if you're right you're wrong, because you don't know the right people.

I think the significant thing about the parking is not that they are continuing previous use, but they are letting out for contract parking.   Now individuals and businesses are not going to want to take up a place for just a few weeks.  Which suggests that there is not going to be building work starting any time soon.

The truth is that the there is a long history of failed schemes to redevelop this site:

1988  Erection of multi-storey car park with office, retail and 14 residential units

1993  Redevelopment to provide mixed residential, offices, retail & parking

1997  Approval in principle for redevelopment of site to create residential units, retail units, Police Station/Library unit

In 2002 the existing building was demolished (for "creation of temporary pay and display car park") , presumably to make the site more tempting for redevelopment.  It didn't work as the next application wasn't till 2018 (approved July 2019):

Erection of a leisure-led mixed use development including a 7 screen cinema, 80 bedroom hotel, 20 residential apartments (14 two bed and 6 three bed units), 3 restaurant/cafe units (Class 3), 4 retail units (Class 1), information centre, public toilets, a drivers' welfare area, multi storey car park (198 car spaces and 16 motorbike spaces), back of house area, plant facilities, circulation space, 5 bus stances on Lord Street with associated waiting areas, site development and landscaping works within a series of five to seven storey buildings

I think there have been other schemes discussed that never even made it to Planning stage.  If redevelopment wasn't possible during all those years of plenty, it seems unlikely that it will be easy at the moment.

[Feelslike]

34 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

The true voice of the Manx Establishment.  Even if you're right you're wrong, because you don't know the right people.

I think the significant thing about the parking is not that they are continuing previous use, but they are letting out for contract parking.   Now individuals and businesses are not going to want to take up a place for just a few weeks.  Which suggests that there is not going to be building work starting any time soon.

The truth is that the there is a long history of failed schemes to redevelop this site:

1988  Erection of multi-storey car park with office, retail and 14 residential units

1993  Redevelopment to provide mixed residential, offices, retail & parking

1997  Approval in principle for redevelopment of site to create residential units, retail units, Police Station/Library unit

In 2002 the existing building was demolished (for "creation of temporary pay and display car park") , presumably to make the site more tempting for redevelopment.  It didn't work as the next application wasn't till 2018 (approved July 2019):

Erection of a leisure-led mixed use development including a 7 screen cinema, 80 bedroom hotel, 20 residential apartments (14 two bed and 6 three bed units), 3 restaurant/cafe units (Class 3), 4 retail units (Class 1), information centre, public toilets, a drivers' welfare area, multi storey car park (198 car spaces and 16 motorbike spaces), back of house area, plant facilities, circulation space, 5 bus stances on Lord Street with associated waiting areas, site development and landscaping works within a series of five to seven storey buildings

I think there have been other schemes discussed that never even made it to Planning stage.  If redevelopment wasn't possible during all those years of plenty, it seems unlikely that it will be easy at the moment.

Typical Manx Crab attitude... "Nothing has happened before so it won't happen now. It won't go ahead because of these few other times that no-one went beyond planning in principle or the application stage".

No-one bought the site before, it has planning permission, and has multiple franchises attached to it. I'm sure the uncertainty around travel and large scale gatherings at the moment will have given some of the investors cold feet but the sale went through during covid, if it was that bad they would've pulled the sale. For it to have even got as far as it has, it must stack up. 

And that proves my point, a global pandemic could stop it, a nuclear winter could stop it, they could find all the voids that were supposed to be under the prom in there when they start digging holes, and people will still say "Told you it wouldn't happen". 

[TheTeapot]

Chris Thomas asked a question about this in Tynwald. 26 months to build some bogs from 4/5/20 and 36 months to complete the whole project apparently. I'm not sure what happens if this isn't done, the answer (and the question tbf) was a bit vague.

[Chef Raekwon]

On 7/20/2020 at 5:39 PM, Roger Mexico said:

The true voice of the Manx Establishment.  Even if you're right you're wrong, because you don't know the right people.

I think the significant thing about the parking is not that they are continuing previous use, but they are letting out for contract parking.   Now individuals and businesses are not going to want to take up a place for just a few weeks.  Which suggests that there is not going to be building work starting any time soon.

The truth is that the there is a long history of failed schemes to redevelop this site:

1988  Erection of multi-storey car park with office, retail and 14 residential units

1993  Redevelopment to provide mixed residential, offices, retail & parking

1997  Approval in principle for redevelopment of site to create residential units, retail units, Police Station/Library unit

In 2002 the existing building was demolished (for "creation of temporary pay and display car park") , presumably to make the site more tempting for redevelopment.  It didn't work as the next application wasn't till 2018 (approved July 2019):

Erection of a leisure-led mixed use development including a 7 screen cinema, 80 bedroom hotel, 20 residential apartments (14 two bed and 6 three bed units), 3 restaurant/cafe units (Class 3), 4 retail units (Class 1), information centre, public toilets, a drivers' welfare area, multi storey car park (198 car spaces and 16 motorbike spaces), back of house area, plant facilities, circulation space, 5 bus stances on Lord Street with associated waiting areas, site development and landscaping works within a series of five to seven storey buildings

I think there have been other schemes discussed that never even made it to Planning stage.  If redevelopment wasn't possible during all those years of plenty, it seems unlikely that it will be easy at the moment.

They are only letting them out for a quarter at a time I believe.

[Max Power]

Talks 'bumpy' over allowing car parking.

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=56901&headline=Not using Lord Street for parking is 'bonkers' says businessman&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2020

No building to progress until next Spring?

[Declan]

 

22 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Talks 'bumpy' over allowing car parking.

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/article.cfm?id=56901&headline=Not using Lord Street for parking is 'bonkers' says businessman&sectionIs=NEWS&searchyear=2020

No building to progress until next Spring?

So the proposal not to allow outside dining on North Quay can't go ahead because of concerns about car parking. When a large carpark sits unused at the end of the Quay, because the DOI are refusing to let it be used for parking.

I was talking to a business owner in the area last night and the closure of that carpark has had a detrimental impact on his business.

Meanwhile, a brilliant idea that will make better use of the space on North Quay is scuppered by parking problems. I've never understood why they allow cars along there at all since the regeneration.