Mr. Sausages Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 And you've watched Waterworld too many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 hours ago, John Wright said: It’s called living in a stand still world Neil probably also under the sub heading of "we'll learn a lesson but it will be to late" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 50 minutes ago, Mr. Sausages said: And you've watched Waterworld too many times. Whilst you appear to be smoking something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 The word you're looking for is hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 http://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/putting-the-type-45-propulsion-problems-in-perspective/ There is an interesting discussion in the linked article. The short of it is that the MOD under Geoff Hoon accepted the risk of a potentially better Rolls Royce/Northrop Grumman propulsion system over a tried and tested design from General Electric. Labour government, British workers jobs etc. A defensible decision, but one which turned out to have been the wrong one. Problem is, BAE Systems (the ship's builders) pointed out the risk to the MOD and the MOD chose to accept the risk. So sadly, it looks unlikely that BAE Systems, RR or Northrop Grumman will be putting their hands in their pockets. The good news is that the Type 45 will be one of the best air defence ships in the World when the propulsion problem is sorted. Incidentally, while the Type 45s definitely aren't battleships (battleships have bloody great guns, these have missiles) the distinction between Destroyers and Frigates these days is pretty blurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 hours ago, RIchard Britten said: Amazing how a OP about the UK Government (specifically Defence Procurement) making a massive costly balls up, and in the space of a few pages has been turned into yet another "bloody immigrants/anti-EU" rant circle jerk. amazing how you won't respond when its proven your talking rubbish...... 5 hours ago, RIchard Britten said: https://www.globalfirepower.com/navy-ships.asp UK 32nd...behind Qatar... fails to take into account all the other areas as the study i posted proves..... Quote Some people like to quote numbers from sites like Global Firepower, a site that rates countries on numbers without any regard for their ability to deploy, sustain and support those numbers, indeed it is the only place where a country gets a higher rank with 100 Soviet-era tanks than a country with 90 modern main battle tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Trumps Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Remedial work is being done at Cammell Laird http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/16106218.Cammell_Laird_wins_contract_to_refit_Type_45_destroyers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Typical Richard Britten illogicality: "we are spending millions to fix our warships" becomes "we've sunk our warships". Condescension seems the only reasonable response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Mr. Sausages said: The word you're looking for is hot. Seriously, it’s not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 4 hours ago, woody2 said: amazing how you won't respond when its proven your talking rubbish...... fails to take into account all the other areas as the study i posted proves..... You really need to spend some time learning English or you might not be allowed to stay post-Brexit. I think what you’re trying to say that your Woodyfacts link is superior to Richard’s. They’re both guff. Naval power isn’t only a measure of ships and firepower. Quality and reliability of weapons and tonnage, intelligence gathering capabilities, encryption skills, training, experience, alliances, re-fuelling capabilities, morale, weather-forecasting, knowledge of local tidal streams and the subsea terrain, etc, etc, also need to be considered. Rating by rating, officer by officer, vessel by vessel The Royal Navy is vastly superior, in its training, accumulated knowledge and in its global reach, to most navies in the world. Shame they seem to get procurement wrong so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I find these sorts of rankings of military power rather useless. The UK does not have the ability to unilaterally wage a major campaign. But does that matter? It isn't going to, say, unilaterally decide to take out Syria's Assad. Short of nuking the country the idea that the RAF could provide air-superiority, let alone air-supremacy, to cover an invasion force isn't realistic. Syria's SAM defences would very quickly risk catastrophic losses. The RAF isn't large enough to run a continuous campaign without the support of allies. The same is true for our surface ships. What was it 3 line ships were lost in 2 weeks during the Falklands against an airforce flying Skyhawks, Mirages and Super Etendardes - the majority of losses via dump bombs from planes at the extreme limit of their range. To defeat a nation state would require a blockade force (assuming it was a littoral nation) and then shipping in multiple field armies which the UK could not transport, provide air-support for, defend or supply for an extended period. It is ludicrous to image say the UK invading and pacifying Myanmar let alone Syria. We couldn't do it and these countries would quickly gain allies which we could not stop providing arms which would defeat us. But unilateral action isn't relevant. Military strength lies in alliances and with - as the art of war says - The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. The economic and social costs of defiance become unacceptable prior to war breaking out and result in a change of policy. Through having a network of alliances and economic cooperation the UK gains security which vastly outweighs its ability to wage war itself. Its armed forces aren't designed for unilateral action, but to work in alliance. The whole is larger than the sum of the parts. The UK is a major player, but with 29 countries in Nato it is never going to be 10 or 20% of any engagement and could never bring dominant power to bear unilaterally. But so what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul's got wright Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 9 hours ago, RIchard Britten said: Criminal are civilians. By every rational definition. criminals may or may not be civilians, in fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul's got wright Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Neil Down said: Seriously, it’s not... correct kneel. seriously, it's not. smoking, it is!. you absolute turd burglar x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 12 hours ago, Chinahand said: Typical Richard Britten illogicality: "we are spending millions to fix our warships" becomes "we've sunk our warships". Condescension seems the only reasonable response. Typical Chinahand "down the nose" approach. The title I chose does not mean literally "sunk". Jesus H Corbit, did that need to be explained? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 10 hours ago, Freggyragh said: ...in its global reach... Except when that reach is limited to Portsmouth Harbour because the engines don't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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