guzzi Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 There was an NY politician (forget who) on Radio 4 yesterday who pointed out one quite salient fact. NY got the crime rate down by pouring resources at policing and swamping the areas where violence prevailed with police officers. London has not been able to do the same because of central government imposed restraints on funding. On race and racism, unfortunately The Met is saddled with a heavy history of institutional racism. That has isolated them from many of the communities that they are supposed to serve. But it's no use being colour blind on the issue of gang violence, when you look at the portraits of victims of murder in London that is on the BBC web site, they are overwhelmingly black. It will be of no use for The Met to simply go back to so-called random stop and search, all that did was find kids carrying small amounts of weed and drive a wedge between the police and black communities. But yes, arrest, break up and disrupt gangs, go all out against their businesses. One part of that might be changing drug policy to de-criminalise all possession and small scale dealing, and completely legalise cannabis, taking it entirely out of criminal hands. It's a shame this seems to have resonated around the world. I'm in Spain at the moment, and last night there was a peak time discussion programme on the main RTVE channel about how London had become more dangerous than New York. The fact is that NY is the safest large city in the US, and that both NY and London are very safe in global terms. I doubt that any tourist to central London, just like any tourist to Manhattan will see any sign of gang related violence. Tourists tend not to go to estates in Hackney or Tottenham or housing projects in Queens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, Rog said: Cheap shot, but in keeping. Hardly scathing coming from a xenophobic racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 30 minutes ago, Rog said: Then he's totally wrong. The ghettos where the killing and unmentioned injuries are taking place are indeed ghettos, areas of scum where crime is part of the normal way of life. And social / "culture" metastasis is now taking place. Dear me. Like cities the world over there tend to be enclaves of migrants. They're not ghettos by any stretch. And of course, migrants tend to end up in the poorest housing. Which is another facet of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 15 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: Hardly scathing coming from a xenophobic racist. Now that's funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: Hardly scathing coming from a xenophobic racist. Flattery will get you nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 19 minutes ago, guzzi said: On race and racism, unfortunately The Met is saddled with a heavy history of institutional racism. That has isolated them from many of the communities that they are supposed to serve. It's no use being colour blind on the issue of gang violence, when you look at the portraits of victims of murder in London that is on the BBC web site, they are overwhelmingly black. It will be of no use for The Met to simply go back to so-called random stop and search, all that did was find kids carrying small amounts of weed and drive a wedge between the police and black communities. But yes, arrest, break up and disrupt gangs, go all out against their businesses. One part of that might be changing drug policy to de-criminalise all possession and small scale dealing, and completely legalise cannabis, taking it entirely out of criminal hands. Nice try but as I found out several pages back it won't cut any ice with the "hang 'em, shoot 'm up, kick 'm out" brigade on here. Facts just don't suit their mindsets I'm afraid. For example Rog has yet to explain how he would deport a UK passport holder.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, P.K. said: Dear me. Like cities the world over there tend to be enclaves of migrants. They're not ghettos by any stretch. And of course, migrants tend to end up in the poorest housing. Which is another facet of the problem. Enclaves and ghettoes are two very different things. In London, and London is not alone, the problems come mostly from the ghettos. As for housing, the only thing that stops the low life from improving their housing is that so many like to live close to the gutter and others don't bother to do even basic maintenance let alone improve where they live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 minute ago, P.K. said: Nice try but as I found out several pages back it won't cut any ice with the "hang 'em, shoot 'm up, kick 'm out" brigade on here. Facts just don't suit their mindsets I'm afraid. For example Rog has yet to explain how he would deport a UK passport holder.... If a person became naturalised in the UK and so a UK passport holder then simply withdraw the naturalisation status and so the UK passport. It can be done, it has been done, it needs to become automatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 time for a change of mayor...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, Rog said: Enclaves and ghettoes are two very different things. In London, and London is not alone, the problems come mostly from the ghettos. As for housing, the only thing that stops the low life from improving their housing is that so many like to live close to the gutter and others don't bother to do even basic maintenance let alone improve where they live. An interesting point. What is the difference between a ghetto and an enclave in this context? I would argue that if the occupants lack the means to leave, then an enclave becomes a ghetto. How did Huguenots leave the East End? By economic activity and social involvement. The Jews who took their place? Ditto. The Bengali's who took the place of the Jews? Ditto, Bangla Town is pretty much a tourist attraction and commercial centre these days, the business owners are likely living in a leafy suburb. But create an alienated group, who do not have much of economic stake and yes, you end up with a ghetto. Yes, you have to limit immigration to a rate where assimilation can reasonably happen but you do not solve the crime problem by acting differently for those already here than for the population at large. You attack the crime and the criminals, as well as the causes for the crime. You hit organised crime hard and disrupt it as much as possible, making gang membership a poor option. But you don't single out immigrants for special treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojomonkey Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, woody2 said: time for a change of mayor...... Bring back Boris, it's probably safer for UK Russian relations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, woody2 said: time for a change of mayor...... Yes, that should sort it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 15 minutes ago, Rog said: If a person became naturalised in the UK and so a UK passport holder then simply withdraw the naturalisation status and so the UK passport. It can be done, it has been done, it needs to become automatic. Dear me. I'll bet you any money you like that young blacks in places like London are born there. Dream on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Just now, P.K. said: Dear me. I'll bet you any money you like that young blacks in places like London are born there. Dream on... Next he will suggest that we keep (as he refers to them) "those people" in special camps, with the purpose of "concentrating" them together to be dealt with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, P.K. said: Dear me. I'll bet you any money you like that young blacks in places like London are born there. Dream on... By no means all, PK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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