London murder rate overtakes New York's

[pongo]

Just now, Lxxx said:

Quite right. What's your point.

You said that "there is not enough money to go around".

[Lxxx]

1 minute ago, pongo said:

You said that "there is not enough money to go around".

There isn't.

[pongo]

Just now, Lxxx said:

There isn't.

There is no shortage of money. It's just that the country doesn't collect the bulk of the profit from money creation.

[Rog]

34 minutes ago, Lxxx said:

There isn't.

There certainly isn't enough to give everyone what they want, even delivering what they need based on our overgenerous benefits handouts requires ever increasing government indebtedness.

[woody2]

import criminals from the eu and beyond is the problem......

lets not forget telford, newcastle, rotherham and rochdale continued to happen because the pc brigade said the police are racist.....

[pongo]

3 minutes ago, Rog said:

There certainly isn't enough to give everyone what they want, even delivering what they need based on our overgenerous benefits handouts requires ever increasing government indebtedness.

Who do you imagine that governments borrow from? Who gives them permission to lend? Who profits?

Govt could create money by spending it. The same as banks today create money by lending it.

[woody2]

2 minutes ago, pongo said:

Who do you imagine that governments borrow from? Who gives them permission to lend? Who profits?

Govt could create money by spending it. The same as banks today create money by lending it.

what's this got to do with the topic......

[pongo]

1 minute ago, woody2 said:

what's this got to do with the topic......

The issue is relation between class, poverty and violence. The false proposition is that there is a shortage of money.

[Rog]

3 minutes ago, pongo said:

Who do you imagine that governments borrow from? Who gives them permission to lend? Who profits?

Govt could create money by spending it. The same as banks today create money by lending it.

Government issues government bonds (Gilts) that are bought by usually overseas investment groups.  As for government creating money by spending it, that dog won't hunt because the government has no money per se, just tax receipts and the sale of government bonds

Banks are a different matter, they make use of fractional reserve banking - check it out.

[Rog]

2 minutes ago, pongo said:

The issue is relation between class, poverty and violence. The false proposition is that there is a shortage of money.

That's no false premise sunshine!

[Lxxx]

6 minutes ago, pongo said:

Who do you imagine that governments borrow from? Who gives them permission to lend? Who profits?

Govt could create money by spending it. The same as banks today create money by lending it.

Of course it could, but it doesn't. It could divert the proceeds of QE into the actual economy instead of topping up the already wealthy by buying government bonds and hoping for the trickle down effect. Which doesn't happen. So as policy is policy there isn't enough money in government spending to sufficiently cater for the amount of people in the country.

[pongo]

8 minutes ago, Rog said:

Banks are a different matter, they make use of fractional reserve banking - check it out.

Who do you imagine gives the banks permission to create money via fractional reserve, from which they also create their own profits? What is it that they actually lend? Who collects the profits? Why?

8 minutes ago, Rog said:

As for government creating money by spending it, that dog won't hunt because the government has no money per se, just tax receipts and the sale of government bonds

You're looking at it completely the wrong way around. The purpose of taxation should be to take excess liquidity out of the system. And no need for government borrowing at all.

ETA: it's not as if you can decide not to use the govt currency. Because you have to use it to pay those taxes. It's a closed system, a national resource.

[Rog]

7 minutes ago, pongo said:

Who do you imagine gives the banks permission to create money via fractional reserve, from which they also create their own profits? What is it that they actually lend? Who collects the profits? Why?

You're looking at it completely the wrong way around. The purpose of taxation should be to take excess liquidity out of the system. And no need for government borrowing at all.

ETA: it's not as if you can decide not to use the govt currency. Because you have to use it to pay those taxes. It's a closed system, a national resource.

Governments decide on a spending budget based on a number of factors and then determine how much will be taken from the population of the country and if there is a shortfall that the government knows the electorate won't stomach and or is needed for political aims then government bonds are offered in the market. 

Governments have no money other than tax receipts and loans which are used to fund various government programs.

 

[Freggyragh]

You don’t know what your talking about Rog.

[Rog]

5 minutes ago, Freggyragh said:

You don’t know what your talking about Rog.

LOL!  In this case I CERTAINLY do!

But go on, where am I incorrect?