Rivers of blood revisited.

[Rog]

1 hour ago, Freggyragh said:

Outing himself as a racist? Everything he ever posts is about his hate and fear for everyone that isn’t a racist Englishman, even though he himself is Jewish. A very sad, limited life he leads. 

My erstwhile religion has SFA to do with anything.

[P.K.]

@Roger

Maybe you should tone down the rhetoric a bit:

Anti-Muslim campaigners denied entry to UK at border

Two prominent anti-Muslim campaigners have been denied entry into the UK ahead of a conference held by Britain’s newest and most active far-right group.

Martin Sellner, from Austria, and the Hungarian Abel Bodi were due to attend the private Generation Identity conference in London on Saturday. They were detained at Stansted airport – the second time in a month that Sellner, the leader of Generation Identity, has been prevented from entering the UK by border officials.

Sellner, 29, was also the ringleader behind a controversial “Defend Europe” campaign last summer, responsible for targeting boats attempting to rescue migrants in the Mediterranean.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/14/anti-muslim-campaigners-denied-entry-uk-far-right-martin-sellner-abel-bodi

[Rog]

5 minutes ago, P.K. said:

@Roger

Maybe you should tone down the rhetoric a bit:

Anti-Muslim campaigners denied entry to UK at border

Two prominent anti-Muslim campaigners have been denied entry into the UK ahead of a conference held by Britain’s newest and most active far-right group.

Martin Sellner, from Austria, and the Hungarian Abel Bodi were due to attend the private Generation Identity conference in London on Saturday. They were detained at Stansted airport – the second time in a month that Sellner, the leader of Generation Identity, has been prevented from entering the UK by border officials.

Sellner, 29, was also the ringleader behind a controversial “Defend Europe” campaign last summer, responsible for targeting boats attempting to rescue migrants in the Mediterranean.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/14/anti-muslim-campaigners-denied-entry-uk-far-right-martin-sellner-abel-bodi

Tone down expressing my views?  Like hell I will.

Denying entry to these people as well as others in the past is totally wrong. It amounts to allowing the islamic terrorists and their supporters to continue unchallenged but even worse preventing the general public learn precisely what is taking place, what the objectives are, how it is being achieved, and why Islam is incompatible with Western democracies.

[P.K.]

14 minutes ago, Rog said:

Tone down expressing my views?  Like hell I will.

Denying entry to these people as well as others in the past is totally wrong. It amounts to allowing the islamic terrorists and their supporters to continue unchallenged but even worse preventing the general public learn precisely what is taking place, what the objectives are, how it is being achieved, and why Islam is incompatible with Western democracies.

Errr actually Rog I think you will find it is to prevent fruitcakes stirring up hatred towards UK Citizens.

There you go.....

[Rog]

16 minutes ago, P.K. said:

Errr actually Rog I think you will find it is to prevent fruitcakes stirring up hatred towards UK Citizens.

There you go.....

I disagree.  That hatred is already well entrenched and is from when they are born.

[mojomonkey]

25 minutes ago, Rog said:

I disagree.  That hatred is already well entrenched and is from when they are born.

You believe humans are born consciously knowing hate? Are you a bit dim?

[John Wright]

He believes that he can just stop being ethnically and religiously Jewish because he’s white and has a British name.

So he passes. It’s a bit like reformed smokers or religious converts or closeted gays - always the most vociferous.

Of course if you are in a darker skinned group and can’t change your skin colour, then you can’t pass, integrate, because the likes of Rog can’t see beyond that personal attribute.

He thinks they are pollution. 

I wonder if the same applies to eye, or hair, colour, and gender and sexuality,  in the Rog world.

[Rog]

12 minutes ago, mojomonkey said:

You believe humans are born consciously knowing hate? Are you a bit dim?

Twisting words somewhat but I should have phrased what I meant better, I should have written brought up to hate the infidel.

[mojomonkey]

2 minutes ago, Rog said:

Twisting words somewhat but I should have phrased what I meant better, I should have written brought up to hate the infidel.

Didn't twist your words at all, what you previously wrote and what you now say are two different things. Hate (irrespective of its source) can be taught but it isn't something humans are born with. For example, even you were born not knowing hate but you've clearly learnt to hate over time.

[Rog]

5 minutes ago, John Wright said:

He believes that he can just stop being ethnically and religiously Jewish because he’s white and has a British name.

So he passes. It’s a bit like reformed smokers or religious converts or closeted gays - always the most vociferous.

Of course if you are in a darker skinned group and can’t change your skin colour, then you can’t pass, integrate, because the likes of Rog can’t see beyond that personal attribute.

He thinks they are pollution. 

I wonder if the same applies to eye, or hair, colour, and gender and sexuality,  in the Rog world.

What has my ethnicity got to do with anything? Or that my parents were Jewish and that I rejected all religions from my early teens? 

As for integration those who won't integrate, indeed CAN'T integrate because of the "religion" they follow then the whole matter becomes problematic.

It's got nothing to do with skin colour or eye colour or gender or sexuality, it's about those who come here just for what they can scrounge and those who come here to scrounge and colonise.

So nice try John, but absolutely no ceegar.

[Rog]

2 minutes ago, mojomonkey said:

Didn't twist your words at all, what you previously wrote and what you now say are two different things. Hate (irrespective of its source) can be taught but it isn't something humans are born with. For example, even you were born not knowing hate but you've clearly learnt to hate over time.

Yes, you're right. I phrased what I originally wrote very badly.  Have I learned to hate? Well I have had a very good teacher in experience.

[John Wright]

7 minutes ago, Rog said:

What has my ethnicity got to do with anything? Or that my parents were Jewish and that I rejected all religions from my early teens? 

As for integration those who won't integrate, indeed CAN'T integrate because of the "religion" they follow then the whole matter becomes problematic.

It's got nothing to do with skin colour or eye colour or gender or sexuality, it's about those who come here just for what they can scrounge and those who come here to scrounge and colonise.

So nice try John, but absolutely no ceegar.

Oh, come on, I’ll bite. Who comes to scrounge and colonise? Really? And where’s the actual evidence?

[doc.fixit]

2 hours ago, mojomonkey said:

Pretty sure no policemen were killed in the Toxteth riots, perhaps you're confusing it with the Brixton riots?

.........sorry, Tottenham...........just sad and angry that folk forget the many riots, and blatent murders..........

[Chinahand]

It is a statement of the bleeding obvious that some black people behave in a terrible way - just as some white people do, some Bangladeshi people do, and some Pakistani people do etc etc etc.

Blaming all blacks for some of them putting dog dirt through someone's letter box is the logic a 10 year old should be able to see through.

The issue to be debated isn't race, it is culture and how different cultures alter each other when they interact.

I've faith in my culture to advance and improve itself, and to positively impact other cultures.  It is a long way from perfect, but it is developing ways to examine itself and work towards the good.

I'm not religious and feel such credes can be unhelpful in advancing cultural change, but when it comes to race I think all people, no matter the population genetics they have inherited can adopt the cultural norms of my society.  There is nothing to do with race in criticizing people's behaviour and for Enoch Powell, or Rog, to fall into this category error is deeply puzzling to me.  Can they be that stupid?  Or are they using their opinion to court controversy, or for other political aims.  For me it is obvious these people aren't stupid, they are simply manipulating race and culture for their own political biases. 

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, Chinahand said:

It is a statement of the bleeding obvious that some black people behave in a terrible way - just as some white people do, some Bangladeshi people do, and some Pakistani people do etc etc etc.

Blaming all blacks for some of them putting dog dirt through someone's letter box is the logic a 10 year old should be able to see through.

The issue to be debated isn't race, it is culture and how different cultures alter each other when they interact.

I've faith in my culture to advance and improve itself, and to positively impact other cultures.  It is a long way from perfect, but it is developing ways to examine itself and work towards the good.

I'm not religious and feel such credes can be unhelpful in advancing cultural change, but when it comes to race I think all people, no matter the population genetics they have inherited can adopt the cultural norms of my society.  There is nothing to do with race in criticizing people's behaviour and for Enoch Powell, or Rog, to fall into this category error is deeply puzzling to me.  Can they be that stupid?  Or are they using their opinion to court controversy, or for other political aims.  For me it is obvious these people aren't stupid, they are simply manipulating race and culture for their own political biases. 

Of course Powell was too clever for his own, or anyone else’s, good, sometimes. He had a huge inferiority complex having gone to Oxbridge from relatively humble roots.

He was a fine debater and one of the best parliamentary orators of his time. Only equalled by Tony Benn.

He compensated, in my view, by over thinking and talking above the heads of most of his audience.

Of course he knew what he was doing, in one sense. He sets out his debating question. He says, I don’t know the answer to this, I can’t predict the future, but we do need to debate this. Great in the Oxbridge Union, even addressing a Court or in parliament. He was provoking debate. And it was an issue worthy of proper, measured, serious debate.

But he couldn’t resist trying to be clever, put in his Aeneas quote, wrongly attributing it to a “Roman”. In fact if you read the original it’s said by a Greek prophetess of Apollo ( a Greek god ), in a Greek colony, to a Greek man who was thinking of applying for a visa and work permit to go to Rome. It suggests Rome may not be safe.

That, when hysterically reported by the press as Rivers of Blood, so clouded the issue that there was no possibility of rational debate. For a generation, and more, no one could even discuss how to deal with integration, diversity, language, etc, without opprobrium. Even the most rational ideas.

It didn’t affect the likes of the NF, BNP or Rog, of course, apart from the fact that no one would rationally engage and debate about wrongness of their views. They became entrenched, marginalised. It led to the no platform for Fascists movement. Unchallenged the far right and racists recruited amongst the disaffected. A typical and frequent route for that political mind set.

im not sure if Powell even considered the possible side effect. An unintended, and very unfortunate,  consequence.