Appalling treatment of the windrush generation

[pongo]

8 hours ago, woolley said:

Good attempt at rationalisation ruined by not quite being able to shake this attitude. It's like the odds of tossing a coin because in a 52 v 48 split of the population there are going to be millions of planks in each camp

But what you can do is predict their Brexit position based on lots to other things that they believe and say. MF is a good microcosm of that. If you tune out the attention seeking then it comes down to some fairly fundamental divisions which Brexit has exposed and which are unlikely to ever be healed.

[woody2]

17 minutes ago, pongo said:

But what you can do is predict their Brexit position based on lots to other things that they believe and say. MF is a good microcosm of that. If you tune out the attention seeking then it comes down to some fairly fundamental divisions which Brexit has exposed and which are unlikely to ever be healed.

leave eu/ don't leave eu- that's the only option......

[the stinking enigma]

52 minutes ago, pongo said:

But what you can do is predict their Brexit position based on lots to other things that they believe and say. MF is a good microcosm of that. If you tune out the attention seeking then it comes down to some fairly fundamental divisions which Brexit has exposed and which are unlikely to ever be healed.

That was the plan all along. It's a conspiracy and no mistake.

[woolley]

5 hours ago, RIchard Britten said:

that voted...13 million odd potential voters didn't.

So they must be even bigger planks?

[woolley]

4 hours ago, pongo said:

But what you can do is predict their Brexit position based on lots to other things that they believe and say. MF is a good microcosm of that. If you tune out the attention seeking then it comes down to some fairly fundamental divisions which Brexit has exposed and which are unlikely to ever be healed.

Just for fun I read the comments posted in the main by Remainers (of course) to an anti-Brexit rant published in the Guardian. They seemingly advocate the EU for no good reason other than some warm mushy vision of a pan-continental multicultural future togetherness that is unrealistic, whilst having seemingly nothing but disdain for their own country or its prospects. Very thin on the ground is analysis of the true situation within the EU economically, socially or politically. They have no knowledge of it.

Most depressing given that many of them are obviously young people with more than a few expressing the "if only the old generation would die" sentiment. They have a great deal to learn.

[Lxxx]

4 hours ago, pongo said:

But what you can do is predict their Brexit position based on lots to other things that they believe and say. MF is a good microcosm of that. If you tune out the attention seeking then it comes down to some fairly fundamental divisions which Brexit has exposed and which are unlikely to ever be healed.

That's absolute nonsense though. If we were a member of a customs union that was being run for the benefit of all member states then it'd be a no brainer to stay in and modernise it from the inside. The fact it is a customs union that has morphed into an economic and unelected political one means it's purpose no longer serves most of it's members and as such it's sensible to take back our freedom to make our own decisions and embrace the 75% of the world GDP that lies outside of the EU.

I know you'd like to think that Brexit is really just a load of racist little Englanders who are destroying the left's dream due to ignorance and stupidity but the fact is there is some sound reasoning that backs up taking such a large decision.     

[pongo]

7 minutes ago, Lxxx said:

That's absolute nonsense though. If we were a member of a customs union that was being run for the benefit of all member states then it'd be a no brainer to stay in and modernise it from the inside. The fact it is a customs union that has morphed into an economic and unelected political one means it's purpose no longer serves most of it's members and as such it's sensible to take back our freedom to make our own decisions and embrace the 75% of the world GDP that lies outside of the EU.

I know you'd like to think that Brexit is really just a load of racist little Englanders who are destroying the left's dream due to ignorance and stupidity but the fact is there is some sound reasoning that backs up taking such a large decision.     

Look at you. Taking what I wrote out of context and twisting it to put your own spin on it. Confirming what I was saying in many ways. Though, of course, what I said was a neutral point. An observation. Subjective - but then all opinion is.

What I wrote applies equally. You want to make a point about Brexit - but my point, to which you were responding, was about the lines which exist on many other issues between those who are for or against.

[woolley]

30 minutes ago, pongo said:

 What I wrote applies equally. You want to make a point about Brexit - but my point, to which you were responding, was about the lines which exist on many other issues between those who are for or against.

But on all issues what is wisdom and what is folly remains firmly in the eye of the beholder.

[Lxxx]

34 minutes ago, pongo said:

Look at you. Taking what I wrote out of context and twisting it to put your own spin on it. Confirming what I was saying in many ways. Though, of course, what I said was a neutral point. An observation. Subjective - but then all opinion is.

What I wrote applies equally. You want to make a point about Brexit - but my point, to which you were responding, was about the lines which exist on many other issues between those who are for or against.

But that's a silly argument. Of course there will be similar views held on many other issues, it's what makes us human, we all hold differing views on differing subjects. However not all people who hold left wing views voted to stay in just as not all right wingers voted Leave. It is entirely possible to hold a view on a subject that doesn't conform with some pre-conceived notion of where that person might sit on a political scale. 

I sit pretty central in my political views. I can see the good points of both sides of the spectrum I just choose not to nail my colours to any one mast and live my life by one ideology or another. 

[pongo]

1 minute ago, woolley said:

But on all issues what is wisdom and what is folly remains firmly in the eye of the beholder.

In general, those with more vehement  opinions in general seem to be strongly anti EU.

1 minute ago, Lxxx said:

not all people who hold left wing views voted to stay in just as not all right wingers voted Leave

You're arguing with yourself here, making it about left or right.

[woolley]

2 minutes ago, pongo said:

In general, those with more vehement  opinions in general seem to be strongly anti EU.

Having vehement opinions is not of itself a bad thing! It doesn't necessarily mean that they are simplistic views.

 

[Lxxx]

2 hours ago, pongo said:

In general, those with more vehement  opinions in general seem to be strongly anti EU.

You're arguing with yourself here, making it about left or right.

I'm addressing your usual MO which usually seeks to create a division in the public voting system between an ill informed and ignorant group of people who for example would vote Leave and a more refined, well read group who might vote Stay. It's a generalisation you make most days on here and I'm quite certain it's not done unconsciously.  

[woolley]

And, of course, wishing the people who voted Leave to their graves is fairly high on the vehemence scale.

[pongo]

1 minute ago, Lxxx said:

I'm addressing your usual MO which usually seeks to create a division in the public voting system between an ill informed and ignorant group of people who for example would vote Leave and a more refined, well read group who might vote Stay. It's a generalisation you make most days on here and I'm quite certain it's done unconsciously.  

That's simply not true. And it doesn't really even make sense. I wonder whether perhaps you imagine me to be left wing.

Anyhow you are making an argument for no reason. You've done that before. I think because I once, long ago, took the piss out of you for saying you were burying gold in your back garden.

 

[P.K.]

40 minutes ago, woolley said:

But on all issues what is wisdom and what is folly remains firmly in the eye of the beholder.

I always thought it was down to the facts of the matter...?

Of course neither the Remain camp nor the Leave camp have a monopoly on either cleverness or stupidity.

But on balance I would have to say that the Leave camp shades it on gullibility....

PS - don't bother trying to look up the word "Gullible" in the OED. It's been removed.