Alfie Evans is fatally ill. Should he be allowed to die in peace?

[homarus]

Like I said previously John , fine words ,but we're not talking about the ownership of a house or an inanimate object here, it's a small child that was carried in the womb for 9 months by his mother  and no doubt was loved the minute he made his entrance into this world .

 Alder Hey  medical staff  have done their best  ,but have no right to upsurp the wishes of the parents  they are in effect claiming the child and saying it's in the best interests for it to die ?.

 Tell me again how it's in the childs best interests to be denied food and water please ,because I'm a bit thick as you know!

Ah! " Ballaughbiker " . Common sense eh, I wonder if you'd feel the same if he was your child ?   What a cunt!

[Chinahand]

We all need to be humble in cases like this: remember Ashya King.

However I strongly disagree with homarus that the parents have some sort of veto when deciding what is in the best interests of the child.

The court and doctors aren't saying it is in his best interests to die.  They say the best thing is to provide the child good palliative care and not to needlessly put the child through discomfort. These things aren't the same.  At all.

Do you really want to put Alfie, and his parents through what Terri Schiavo had to go through - you feed, and put him on artificial respiration and he could painfully go on for a long long time?

When Pope John Paul II was dying he asked not to return to hospital but stayed in his private apartment accepting the inevitable and living the words he said in 2002: “It is necessary to approach the ill with that healthy realism which avoids generating in those who suffer the illusion of medicine’s omnipotence.”

Alfie's parents sadly seem to be desperately hoping the illusion of medicine's omnipotence will revive their son.  There is more than a chance they are wrong about that, and that their actions could be cruel to him.  I don't think the parents have an automatic right to do what ever they want.

I feel terribly for them, but can fully understand the court over-ruling their desperation. 

[woolley]

31 minutes ago, homarus said:

Like I said previously John , fine words ,but we're not talking about the ownership of a house or an inanimate object here, it's a small child that was carried in the womb for 9 months by his mother  and no doubt was loved the minute he made his entrance into this world .

 Alder Hey  medical staff  have done their best  ,but have no right to upsurp the wishes of the parents  they are in effect claiming the child and saying it's in the best interests for it to die ?.

 Tell me again how it's in the childs best interests to be denied food and water please ,because I'm a bit thick as you know!

Ah! " Ballaughbiker " . Common sense eh, I wonder if you'd feel the same if he was your child ?   What a cunt!

But again, there is no "ownership" of a person. The hospital is not usurping the wishes of the parents. All are equal before the law and the courts have to apply it to all without fear or favour. Expert opinion has it that further treatment is not in the child's best interest. What would you have happen? Always defer to the parents wishes regardless of the child's suffering or the cost to the system for ever, even though it is futile?

[Chinahand]

Homorus, the last sentence you have written in your last post is totally unacceptable.  I hope you can see that and edit it.  There is simply no need to use that language or to attack BB in that way.

[homarus]

Your arguement doesn't stack up woolley !"Expert opinion has it that further treatment is not in the childs best interest?  So it's in his best interest to die then?

 No cost to the system (although I suspect consideration would have been given to  this aspect by the "experts") Funding and a medical team was/is in place to take him to Italy, even though it may have been futile ,,anythings better than being nudged along the pathway to death surely?

[Chinahand]

Homorus, I have sat and discussed the fact that the treatment a child was being put through was cruel and probably pointless.  The child was old enough to express her pain though only via raw emotion and words - she hated the doctors, hated the hospital and was beginning to hate her mum for putting her through it.

Her mum and dad came to the hugely emotional, but common sense decision to stop - she died a short while afterwards.  Think about that homorus, and edit what you wrote above.  You have no knowledge of BB and what he may have gone through in life and the common sense decisions he has made.

[homarus]

4 minutes ago, Chinahand said:

Homorus, the last sentence you have written in your last post is totally unacceptable.  I hope you can see that and edit it.  There is simply no need to use that language or to attack BB in that way.

I'm quite happy with it to be honest ,what sort of comment is it to use  "Common sense"  as a reason to  "off" a small child because you can dress it up any way you like but that is the  "planned pathway" !

[Chinahand]

So was the mother I sat with what you called BB?  

[La Colombe]

45 minutes ago, homarus said:

Ah! " Ballaughbiker " . Common sense eh, I wonder if you'd feel the same if he was your child ?   What a cunt!

Awesome communication skillz. 

[homarus]

Is BB the father of Alfie?

Quite obviously not,therefor his opinion is no more relevant than mine ,yours or anybody else pontificating on this thread .The final decision should have been the parents .

 I'm sure BB may well have had to make hard decisions regarding loved ones ,but by the sounds of it at least he got to make them  ,but I will concede  that  if I've crossed the line with BB I will genuinely apologize  .

 

[homarus]

2 minutes ago, La Colombe said:

Awesome communication skillz. 

Glad to see the forum ghoul could finally make it !!

[Chinahand]

6 minutes ago, homarus said:

Is BB the father of Alfie?

Quite obviously not,therefor his opinion is no more relevant than mine ,yours or anybody else pontificating on this thread .The final decision should have been the parents .

You are deliberately ignoring the issue. 

When it is "their child" many many parents do make the decision to put their children into palliative care.  You continually make that out to be them "off"-ing their child.  That is wrong, and the people making that decision often do it with their child's best interest at heart - they are not what you say they are in the most crude and insensitive way.

[homarus]

I know they're doing it in a warm and cuddly way obviously!!

[woolley]

52 minutes ago, homarus said:

Your arguement doesn't stack up woolley !"Expert opinion has it that further treatment is not in the childs best interest?  So it's in his best interest to die then?

 

Very likely, given that there is no hope of recovery and his prospects are only for more suffering. What kind of "life" can he look forward to? It would be easy for the hospital to wash their hands of the situation, take the simple way out and let the boy go to Italy. The parents favour that, but they are emotionally involved and cannot make a decision dispassionately. They see hope where there is none. There has to be a mechanism functioning in these situations that will look to the patient's best interest and that is the courts. Otherwise there is anarchy.

[guzzi]

3 hours ago, homarus said:

Like I said previously John , fine words ,but we're not talking about the ownership of a house or an inanimate object here, it's a small child that was carried in the womb for 9 months by his mother  and no doubt was loved the minute he made his entrance into this world .

 Alder Hey  medical staff  have done their best  ,but have no right to upsurp the wishes of the parents  they are in effect claiming the child and saying it's in the best interests for it to die ?.

 Tell me again how it's in the childs best interests to be denied food and water please ,because I'm a bit thick as you know!

Ah! " Ballaughbiker " . Common sense eh, I wonder if you'd feel the same if he was your child ?   What a cunt!

That is truly awful, Homarus. Please be moderate and understanding, people who have had to take such decisions in relation to their nearest and dearest feel mixed enough emotions without you calling them a cunt.

(deleted original post, as it was too personal, on reflection)