Alfie Evans is fatally ill. Should he be allowed to die in peace?

[woolley]

It's a very emotive subject and emotions often override sound judgement for those involved and sometimes even for those not involved, as clearly attested to by the mob outside Alder Hey who are passing judgement without knowledge.

[quilp]

I'd have tear-gassed the lot of them. I'd also bet none of them had to ask a boss for time off. 

[ballaughbiker]

Quote

I'm sure BB may well have had to make hard decisions regarding loved ones ,but by the sounds of it at least he got to make them  ,but I will concede  that  if I've crossed the line with BB I will genuinely apologize  .

I don't want or need your apology thanks. However I will not resort to the tactics you have apparently demeaned yourself with based on lack of undertanding of what I meant and let's be clear, you have misunderstood, comprehensively. I  also think you have crossed a line.

If Alfie was my child, I would not want medical science to prolong life that was without hope of any recovery whatsoever. There are many reasons for this one of which was watching my mother suffer one of the most agonising deaths possible because doctors felt that prolonging her life was required in law and therefore in her best interests. She begged them to end her suffering but they decided that keeping her going so that she could experience drowning in her own saliva over a few days which was they thought what was required, despite no hope whatsoever of recovering from her terminal and cruel neurological illness.

I think they could also be described as cunts if I had thought shallowly.  I had the good grace not to tell them though because, as I am not a doctor, maybe I misunderstood some medico-legal or medical minutia.

If you look back, you will see that I have had nothing but sympathy and admiration for the parents who have been through hell. Based on evidence now available, that hell would not be alleviated one bit by prolonging Alfie's life on a ventilator in a foreign country and much more importantly it would not benefit Alfie one bit, maybe the opposite. That is the common sense to which I referred.

 I hope you will seek clarification in future (as I did with your first post which also demonstrated significant anger directed at someone else) if you want to take issue. That's how forums ought to work. I realise however that it's much easier to bypass the thinking bit and hurl abuse.

Have a good weekend.

[paul's got wright]

3 hours ago, quilp said:

I'd have tear-gassed the lot of them. I'd also bet none of them had to ask a boss for time off. 

You really think they were all self employed? On what basis? Under whose auhthotity would you have used tear gas? Is this really the place for mudslinging? Sick in my opinion

[ballaughbiker]

Quote

anythings better than being nudged along the pathway to death surely?

Really?

[pongo]

8 hours ago, homarus said:

anythings better than being nudged along the pathway to death surely?

I'll take that extra dose of pain relief thanks. The one which sends me off. I hope they use their compassionate judgement and gently nudge me along.

[homarus]

21 hours ago, woolley said:

But again, there is no "ownership" of a person. The hospital is not usurping the wishes of the parents. All are equal before the law and the courts have to apply it to all without fear or favour. Expert opinion has it that further treatment is not in the child's best interest. What would you have happen? Always defer to the parents wishes regardless of the child's suffering or the cost to the system for ever, even though it is futile?

Why do you refer to cost  to the system  ,in this particular case the parents have had offers of help from various quarters and a lot of money has already been raised by public donation.

 The NHS ethos i think was that whenever possible people with mental health conditions were to be treated at home for various reasons cost being one of them , I'd say little Alfie qualifies under that basis alone ?

This case now appears to be purely one of the medical people and Lawmakers involved in this saving face and whether my assertion is correct or not ,that is how it appears to a lot of people watching in .

Having said that I acknowledge that the NHS on the whole is run by fantastic dedicated professionals and we have all been grateful for it at one time or another ,but they are not right 100% of the time .

As for  "Futile"?   The medical professionals  can advise(and they may be right!) but each case should be on it's merits and  only the parents should have the final say !

  In this case they  expected the child would die quickly and  as far as I'm aware 4 days later he's still hanging on?

You would have thought that after the organ harvesting scandal Alder Hey and their senior management team  would have learnt their lessons  ,but obviously not and have  now  brought down  upon themselves and the NHS shitloads of unwanted and negative publicity worldwide .

In fact Nigel Farage gave an interview to Fox news yesterday saying that Doctors are not always right  and that the wishes of Parents in a free society should be paramount  the State should not own our kids !

 I agree with that sentiment.

[La Colombe]

Alfie Evans has died. Poor little fella. 

[Gladys]

20 hours ago, homarus said:

,but I will concede  that  if I've crossed the line with BB I will genuinely apologize  .

 

Please do that and edit your offensive post.

[Gladys]

16 hours ago, ballaughbiker said:

I don't want or need your apology thanks. However I will not resort to the tactics you have apparently demeaned yourself with based on lack of undertanding of what I meant and let's be clear, you have misunderstood, comprehensively. I  also think you have crossed a line.

If Alfie was my child, I would not want medical science to prolong life that was without hope of any recovery whatsoever. There are many reasons for this one of which was watching my mother suffer one of the most agonising deaths possible because doctors felt that prolonging her life was required in law and therefore in her best interests. She begged them to end her suffering but they decided that keeping her going so that she could experience drowning in her own saliva over a few days which was they thought what was required, despite no hope whatsoever of recovering from her terminal and cruel neurological illness.

I think they could also be described as cunts if I had thought shallowly.  I had the good grace not to tell them though because, as I am not a doctor, maybe I misunderstood some medico-legal or medical minutia.

If you look back, you will see that I have had nothing but sympathy and admiration for the parents who have been through hell. Based on evidence now available, that hell would not be alleviated one bit by prolonging Alfie's life on a ventilator in a foreign country and much more importantly it would not benefit Alfie one bit, maybe the opposite. That is the common sense to which I referred.

 I hope you will seek clarification in future (as I did with your first post which also demonstrated significant anger directed at someone else) if you want to take issue. That's how forums ought to work. I realise however that it's much easier to bypass the thinking bit and hurl abuse.

Have a good weekend.

A dignified and reasoned response. 

[Rog]

13 hours ago, paul's got wright said:

You really think they were all self employed? On what basis? Under whose auhthotity would you have used tear gas? Is this really the place for mudslinging? Sick in my opinion

Employed, but as government artists.

[homarus]

Just now, Gladys said:

Please do that and edit your offensive post.

Too late now it's out there ! I thought BB's comment was cold but on reflection my response was over zealous and I've apologised , that's good enough for me .

 I'm certain that we have all been(Well most of us) in situations where loved ones have become ill and passed on ,it's not an exclusive experience ,so forgive me if I don't bow down to the Holier than thou virtue signalers on here , My own family in recent years has been through some real shit storms  and I can't thank the medical staff involved enough for their professionalism and patience ,but my stance remains the same as regards poor Alfie .

 

 

[Chinahand]

Homorus, You can edit your post and politely ask those who have quoted it to do the same. Not exactly difficult and if someone refuses? Well that reflects on them, doesn’t it. 

[homarus]

Jesus wept!

  A child has died under contentious circumstances  all you lot want to talk  about is a bad word .

[quilp]

It's all over bar the shouting. Time to move on...