Alfie Evans is fatally ill. Should he be allowed to die in peace?

[homarus]

All's well that end's well!!

[Lxxx]

23 hours ago, quilp said:

I'd have tear-gassed the lot of them. I'd also bet none of them had to ask a boss for time off. 

Bit low that.

[paswt]

14 hours ago, homarus said:

Why do you refer to cost  to the system  ,in this particular case the parents have had offers of help from various quarters and a lot of money has already been raised by public donation.

 The NHS ethos i think was that whenever possible people with mental health conditions were to be treated at home for various reasons cost being one of them , I'd say little Alfie qualifies under that basis alone ?

This case now appears to be purely one of the medical people and Lawmakers involved in this saving face and whether my assertion is correct or not ,that is how it appears to a lot of people watching in .

Having said that I acknowledge that the NHS on the whole is run by fantastic dedicated professionals and we have all been grateful for it at one time or another ,but they are not right 100% of the time .

As for  "Futile"?   The medical professionals  can advise(and they may be right!) but each case should be on it's merits and  only the parents should have the final say !

  In this case they  expected the child would die quickly and  as far as I'm aware 4 days later he's still hanging on?

You would have thought that after the organ harvesting scandal Alder Hey and their senior management team  would have learnt their lessons  ,but obviously not and have  now  brought down  upon themselves and the NHS shitloads of unwanted and negative publicity worldwide .

In fact Nigel Farage gave an interview to Fox news yesterday saying that Doctors are not always right  and that the wishes of Parents in a free society should be paramount  the State should not own our kids !

 I agree with that sentiment.

Sounds fair  enough  "H" . 

The medics do not get it right all the time , my step father was told to "make his arrangements" on a number of occasions , in fact his GP (on island) said that he made house calls without being asked if only to remind him of how wrong he could be ! Mind you in his defence my step dad was a curmudgeonly stubborn party (who I admired) and lived into his nineties and died in his own bed in his own time. 

Some 25 years ago my weight had dropped to under 8 stone and when I asked a consultant (off island) what he would do in my place he advised me to "make sure my affairs were in order" ........... I got better , ................and declined further tests .

I was never a fan of the "Liverpool pathway" (SP?)

It's clearly been desperate times for the family of "Alfie" and they have my sympathies, they are of no earthly use to them but they have them just the same .

[woody2]

15 hours ago, homarus said:

Why do you refer to cost  to the system  ,in this particular case the parents have had offers of help from various quarters and a lot of money has already been raised by public donation.

 

 

but no offers of treatment which is the issue....

[homarus]

14 minutes ago, woody2 said:

but no offers of treatment which is the issue....

No it's not,it's very obvious what the issue is and why it's gathered so much attention worldwide!

[quilp]

2 hours ago, Lxxx said:

Bit low that.

A reaction maybe to the equally low behaviour of the baying, social-media-driven rent-a-mob, blocking roads, intimidating staff (some doctors and nurses from unrelated departments), patients (other sick kids), their families and then, to top it all off, aggressively threatening to storm the unit! For what? Who might benefit from such mindless action? Not Alfie, that's for sure...

[woody2]

2 hours ago, homarus said:

No it's not,it's very obvious what the issue is and why it's gathered so much attention worldwide!

i read some of the judgements, they made it very clear that if someone could offer treatment they would look at it, even with "much attention worldwide" nobody did......

unless you know different?

[pongo]

19 hours ago, homarus said:

Nigel Farage gave an interview to Fox news yesterday

Says it all really. Now he's giving medical opinions too. What a crap time we live in when oiks like him have a platform at all.

[homarus]

He didn't give a medical opinion ,you've just made that up

 ""What a crap time we live in when oiks like him have a platform at all"".

 Not a believer in free speech unless it's the right speech I take it?

 

[P.K.]

1 minute ago, homarus said:

He didn't give a medical opinion ,you've just made that up

 ""What a crap time we live in when oiks like him have a platform at all"".

 Not a believe in free speech unless it's the right speech I take it?

So after the appalling Brexit farrago, with Farage deploying pictures of desperate refugee families fleeing a war zone as though they were headed to the UK for economic reasons, we should always believe that his actions are totally altruistic?

I admire you for taking on the establishment for what I think are all the right reasons.

Don't throw it all away for a shallow, untrustworthy wanker like Farage....

[homarus]

 

  Let's leave your hatred for Farage and  the Brexit angle out of this shall we ,please!

  99% of Modern politicains are not worth a wank so why focus on  the one .

[Gladys]

The real tragedy is the very sad illness of this little boy and the diversion from his interests to a maelstrom of 'positive action' played out, and fuelled, on social media.  So sad that his parents were not allowed to prepare themselves for the inevitable but, imo, were swept along with strident, possibly well-meaning, but dubiuosly informed campaigners.  

Some of the reports about his condition were that he had none of the traditional senses, and the only remaining sense was pain. 

I can only begin to imagine the awful and tragic loss his parents were facing and can understand their sincere desire for him to survive.  But, a kinder campaign may have been to help them reconcile themselves to his last days and to create some positive memories rather than taking on one legal battle after another. 

Very sad on a number of levels. 

[homarus]

The real tragedy is that  the establishment   claimed jurisdiction of a child ahead of their parents and people are actually supporting them in it !

 

[Gladys]

No, the real tragedy was the vicarious indignity and outrage of people who had absolutely 'no skin in the game' who wound up a situation and encouraged (if not pressured) the parents, who were extremely vulnerable, to take a reactive course against the medical advice. Once the inevitable had occurred, they could melt back into their own lives none the worse.  Not so for those who were directly affected - the parents and family, medical staff and other patients of Alder Hey and their families who had to face the barrage both physically at the hospital and through the media. 

In amongst all of that was a terminally ill child whose family should have been allowed to focus on making the best of the time they had left with him, not spending that time mounting futile legal challenges and publicly challenging the medical advice.  To what end?  It certainly did not extend Alfie's life or change the outcome. 

 

[homarus]

Really good debate going on now live on LBC regarding this!

 Who owns the child .the parents or the state?