GD4ELI Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 I'm all for voluntary euthanasia - given the choice of incontinence, mental stupor and the inability to look after myself, I personally would rather be dead. Cheap and cheerful :-) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Friend of mine in Holland who had cancer just did that - doctor came round and provided the injection(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 What your dear old Ma worked for is NOT yours. It's not the government's either. It's your old Ma's to do with as she chooses - or should be. And it is. And if she needs/wants care, and a roof over her head, she has the money behind her to be able to pay for it. Just like the rest of life.If she doesn't have the money, she will be taken care of anyway. Rules for some and rules for others eh Alex? Do as I say and not as I'll do. Nice to see the new sensitive generation coming along ... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Eh? It's a general principle of life that you work now for what you need in retirement - that's why we have pensions and savings. Don't see why that is insensitive? I suppose in a utopian existance it woud be nice to allow people to keep their money to pass onto their children or local cat sanctuary and pay for their (often long-term) care via public funds - but seriously, how on earth could we raise that sort of cash? Through inheritance tax maybe? We don't even have enough money to pay for our own pensions. The only people this system will piss off are the relatives, hoping to make an easy buck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addie Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 My own intentions are to work 'til I decide to retire, then sell my house and live off the proceeds ... then what's left will be used. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I suppose in a utopian existance it woud be nice to allow people to keep their money ... So let me understand this. You keep your money in a house which can be taken from you and that's OK. Your money's funding your care. But if you sell said house and blow the lot that's OK too because we then fund your care? The only people this system will xxxx off are the relatives, hoping to make an easy buck. Wrong! It pisses me off and I'm old enough to be the one with the bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 What your dear old Ma worked for is NOT yours. It's not the government's either. It's your old Ma's to do with as she chooses - or should be. And it is. And if she needs/wants care, and a roof over her head, she has the money behind her to be able to pay for it. Just like the rest of life.If she doesn't have the money, she will be taken care of anyway. Rules for some and rules for others eh Alex? Do as I say and not as I'll do. Nice to see the new sensitive generation coming along ... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Eh? It's a general principle of life that you work now for what you need in retirement - that's why we have pensions and savings. Don't see why that is insensitive? I suppose in a utopian existance it woud be nice to allow people to keep their money to pass onto their children or local cat sanctuary and pay for their (often long-term) care via public funds - but seriously, how on earth could we raise that sort of cash? Through inheritance tax maybe? We don't even have enough money to pay for our own pensions. The only people this system will piss off are the relatives, hoping to make an easy buck. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Realtives hoping to make an easy buck? How about family wealth that the owner has a right to disperse as and when they see fit. There is a sort of irony that the island that flourishes on the back of tax dodging schemes aka the Financial Services Sector should have people so tense about those who HAVE paid their taxes all their lives now being excluded from the provisions of the Welfare State, something that is paid for out of tax payers pockets to provide health and welfare services to all that need them What will be the corollary I wonder? How long before the NHS becomes means tested? After all the dentistry service certainly is. When I started work it was on the understanding that I would be provided with cradle to grave provisions. All my medical needs would be catered for and indeed they once were. I and others like me paid a very great deal of money into the Welfare State coffers. We paid not for what we got at the time but as insurance for what we would need at some future time. Now I know all the bull about paying for the current year in the current year and so forth, mismanagement by past governments but water under the bridge. I also hear the garbage about not being able to afford the service that is now needed to which my reply is to examine the prioritisation given to the spending of public money and get priorities right, something that both the UK and especially the Manx government are both pretty dam useless at, but the no money excuse simply won’t wash. Look, This is not some people electing[.b] to go into a retirement home out of choice, this is about people needing to go into care because they are physically or mentally incapable of surviving on their own. OK, if some old girl woke up one morning and said to herself “Sod this for a game of soldiers, I’m going to where my meals are provided for me, where I’ll be washed and cared for, where all my heating needs and so forth will be looked after” then fine, She should be required to realise the equity in whatever property she has and pay or it. But such is NOT the case. It is for people who NEED such services because of medical conditions. We pay for our NHS, and pay a dam lot of money incidentally, so medical care be it acute be it chronic, or be it geriatric should be provided free to the user and if that care includes accommodation in a sheltered environment, so be it. It should be provided under the umbrella of the NHS and as with all other NHS provisions (excluding the Dental disgrace) should be provided irrespective of the financial standing of the person who needs such services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Skies Are Grey Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Havent read the whole thread but did anyone see the Panorama programme last night on the NHS failing the elderly...truly depressing on so many levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 OK, give me an idea how we would pay for all those people up in Nursing/Residential homes right now using their own money to pay for their care? Where would this money come from? There is not a big fund just waiting to be taken from y'know - we would have to all start paying more tax or NI - one hell of a lot more! Realtives hoping to make an easy buck? How about family wealth that the owner has a right to disperse as and when they see fit. And they do. Once their lives have ended is the usual manner I believe, and they've finished using their own money themselves for their own living! (Apart from Inheritance Tax of course, which we don't have here, though I believe they do 'round your neck of the woods Rog. They let you keep assets/cash of up to 275k, anything over that is taxed at 40%) There are ways to get around it if you're not happy with it. Such as putting the house in trust, nominally selling it to relatives early etc. In a perfect world, we'd all have our LTC provided, but we're not in a perfect world, and I really don't see how it's achievable. To use some figure from teh interwebnet, the average life expentancy in a home is 2 yrs, at a cost of 26k per year = 52k. One in 4 people go into a home: 52000 divided by 4 = 13k extra tax/NI to be found per person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FCMR Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 British whites have paid into the Pension fund for many years and one of the reasons we have a black hole in the pensions funds now is due to mass immigration and illegal immigrants who are robbing the DHSS And this applied in Holland they opened the gates to immigrants and the once great DHSS of Holland failed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 British whites have paid into the Pension fund for many years So have millions of British non-whites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 OK, give me an idea how we would pay for all those people up in Nursing/Residential homes right now using their own money to pay for their care? Where would this money come from? There is not a big fund just waiting to be taken from y'know - we would have to all start paying more tax or NI - one hell of a lot more! Chuck out asylum seekers. They cost the UK 2 BILLION pounds per year. UK taxes for UK people. Chuck out failed asylum seekers, they cost the UK 500 million per year. Same thing, UK taxes for UK people. Make ‘tax credits for the unemployed’ dependent on the doing work. No work, no money Address the farcical situation where people with an income of over £55,000 pa can still get ‘tax benefits’ Review the dam fool things tax payers money presently funds not least the mass of jobs in the public sector which under NuLabour has grown by in excess of 600,000 people (really) Stop this rubbish about paying kids to go top school if over the age of 16 Don’t even THINK about paying kids ‘Dane geld’ to behave themselves. And that’s just for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 British whites have paid into the Pension fund for many years So have millions of British non-whites. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Offer them a lump sum and reduced pension to go back to where they came from where they are first generation immigrants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Offer them a lump sum and reduced pension to go back to where they came from where they are first generation immigrants. And where was it that they came from Rog? The jungle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Sadly, Rog, these are things for you to sort out your side of the water - UK taxes for UK People. Even though a Manxman in exile, I don't think we can do a lot to help, other than sympathise. Also, I do not understand the farcical situation re "tax benefits" if you earn over £55K, surely certain things are taxable and certain things are allowable against tax? Ditto on tax credits, surely you have to earn the income to be taxed on it then have a tax credit applied to mitigate the charge? Or am I just being isolationist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugger Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Wow, what sort of racist arsehole is this Rog character? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Offer them a lump sum and reduced pension to go back to where they came from where they are first generation immigrants. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And where was it that they came from Rog? The jungle? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In some cases no doubt but who cares? It could be a very attractive offer for some people to take up and would free up housing and other services over here. A true win win situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rog Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Sadly, Rog, these are things for you to sort out your side of the water - UK taxes for UK People. Even though a Manxman in exile, I don't think we can do a lot to help, other than sympathise. Also, I do not understand the farcical situation re "tax benefits" if you earn over £55K, surely certain things are taxable and certain things are allowable against tax? Ditto on tax credits, surely you have to earn the income to be taxed on it then have a tax credit applied to mitigate the charge? Or am I just being isolationist? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> First off don't forget the Coomon purse, many of the thi gs here have a knock on to the Island and secondly 'tax credit' is simply the PC term for social security hand out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.