Paris knife attack

[guzzi]

3 minutes ago, Rog said:

You've got the two totally the wrong way round.

In your opinion. I trust that you don't think that my opinion merits the death of my family members in a terrorist attack?

[Rog]

49 minutes ago, Mr. Sausages said:

Good question, there seems to be a lot to choose from.  My guess is decades of money laundering. 

If there was any dirt that was there to be found the Dems would have it writ large and on every advertising hoarding in the county long ago.

[Rog]

Just now, guzzi said:

In your opinion. I trust that you don't think that my opinion merits the death of my family members in a terrorist attack?

Good grief, not for a New York Second! 

[Mr. Sausages]

9 minutes ago, Rog said:

If there was any dirt that was there to be found the Dems would have it writ large and on every advertising hoarding in the county long ago.

He's got nothing to be worried about then.  You should let him know, because he seems very worried about what they found at his lawyer's office, and his lawyer "flipping" on him and his daughter.  Oh, and all of Mueller's sealed indictments.

[woolley]

9 minutes ago, guzzi said:

People seem to be incapable of understanding English. I fully expect that of Woody, but it's disappointing that others don't grasp the meaning of the following sentence:

"I fear right wing authoritarianism, buoyed up by dumb, senseless xenophobia and nihilistic popularism a lot more than I fear terrorism. "

That doesn't say I don't fear terrorism, does it? It says I fear the one thing more than the other.

We seem to have gone very badly wrong somewhere if it appears that the only choices open to us are the establishment of a jackbooted police state or acquiescence in the importation of a malign, murderous movement that it is incompatible with the all of our values. Problem is, if you go too far down the road you will need the one to confront the other. No winners at all in this game.

[Rog]

4 minutes ago, woolley said:

We seem to have gone very badly wrong somewhere if it appears that the only choices open to us are the establishment of a jackbooted police state or acquiescence in the importation of a malign, murderous movement that it is incompatible with the all of our values. Problem is, if you go too far down the road you will need the one to confront the other. No winners at all in this game.

Sadly that's true. Amongst the warped ethos they have is that compromise where their religiously dictated demands are concerned amounts to surrender and that surrender is to be blasphemous.

The only way to deal with this is with overwhelming force to get the genie back in the bottle, and constant diligence thereafter.

[woolley]

23 minutes ago, Rog said:

Sadly that's true. Amongst the warped ethos they have is that compromise where their religiously dictated demands are concerned amounts to surrender and that surrender is to be blasphemous.

The only way to deal with this is with overwhelming force to get the genie back in the bottle, and constant diligence thereafter.

I think we are past that stage, and it is tacitly accepted that we are. If they could rewind sixty years they would do things a whole lot differently. They can't of course, and so the only alternative is to do what they are doing. Managing the consequences as best they can and in the long run it's somebody else's problem. That's Western Europe today.

[guzzi]

44 minutes ago, woolley said:

We seem to have gone very badly wrong somewhere if it appears that the only choices open to us are the establishment of a jackbooted police state or acquiescence in the importation of a malign, murderous movement that it is incompatible with the all of our values. Problem is, if you go too far down the road you will need the one to confront the other. No winners at all in this game.

I agree with a lot of that.

But I don't see the " a malign, murderous movement that is incompatible with all of our values" as predominating in any immigrant community. I am not saying that it isn't there at all, because clearly it is.  Yes, we have to manage immigration effectively, ensuring that only genuine asylum seekers are admitted aside from those with an established right of residence.  But I think that we ought to be mindful of the fact that responding with jackbooted police state tactics is exactly what the perpetrators want to provoke, further alienating the disaffected and driving people into their ranks. 

I believe that eventually, unfortunately not soon, we will reach the state where support for the malign, murderous ideology will dwindle to such levels that the movement shrivels and dies. There is precedent in Spain, where ETA has recently disbanded. The reality was that support for ETA in the Basque Country had become so tiny that continuation of their terrorist campaign was simply unsustainable.

In the meantime, we have to rely on our security and police services to defend us.  That won't, tragically, be completely effective, obviously. 

But what we shouldn't condone is hate speak where we wish one persons family dead in a terrorist attack because they express what is perceived as a liberal opinion about immigration.

[woolley]

Thoughtful post which deserves a much longer reply, but I have a meeting scheduled shortly that won't wait. No doubt somebody will rise to the challenge.

Briefly, I don't think anyone wishes harm on anyone - other than the maniacs of course, but I do believe that the dereliction of duty to allow such a state of affairs to come about, where armed, murderous aliens are walking the streets certified as compatriots, is verging on culpability for causing death by negligence. Stupidity of the highest order.

We really can't compare a regional territorial dispute (ETA/IRA) with a religious war that has ebbed and flowed for well over a thousand years. It won't "shrivel and die" any time soon. To think it will really does ignore the lessons of history. If anything it is intensifying and the flames are being fanned by all sides.

[the stinking enigma]

"Isis" in europe are far less organised than the ira were. It's basically lone wolf or a couple of nutjobs that then get attributed to this mystical enemy that we invented in the first place.

[the stinking enigma]

Dem snowflakes got it bad

[the stinking enigma]

2 hours ago, woody2 said:

lets hope its you or one of your family killed next then since your not bothered......

Hush little snowflake. You aren't going to die, pull yourself together man for fucks sake. Embarrassing.

[woody2]

18 minutes ago, guzzi said:

But what we shouldn't condone is hate speak where we wish one persons family dead in a terrorist attack because they express what is perceived as a liberal opinion about immigration.

that isn't hate speech its about you snowflakes taking reasonability for the mess you have made.....

sadly terrorist attacks hits everyone but not idiots like you hiding behind your keyboard..... 

[RIchard Britten]

2 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said:

"Isis" in europe are far less organised than the ira were. It's basically lone wolf or a couple of nutjobs that then get attributed to this mystical enemy that we invented in the first place.

Person 1: "We need to defeat ISIS"

Person 2: "Righto...where should be defeating them?"

Person 1: "In ISIS's back yard!!!"

Person 2: "Right and where would that be?  And for that matter what exactly are we "defeating"?

Person 1: "Well...their infrastructure"

Person 2: "You mean the infrastructure of the country ISIS supposedly control?"

Person 1: "Um.....yeah that one"

Person 2: "Doesn't that serve the goals of ISIS to drive more people into their ranks?"

Person 1: "Erm....BREXIT...IMMIGRANTS...LIBERALS!!!"

[guzzi]

3 hours ago, woody2 said:

that isn't hate speech its about you snowflakes taking reasonability for the mess you have made.....

sadly terrorist attacks hits everyone but not idiots like you hiding behind your keyboard..... 

Reasonability - yes, many a true thing written as a slip up.

Unlike you, I don't hide behind my keyboard. My name is on all my  posts, below my screen name. It has been for years. Are you willing to put up your real name and take responsibility for the things that you write here?