Living Hope Church - wolves, money and healing - again

[The Phantom]

2 minutes ago, La_Dolce_Vita said:

Why shouldn't all beliefs be critiqued or evaluated to see whether they are true or not?  That's what we normally do, otherwise we wouldn't know what is true.  

 

I'm (sort of) agreeing with you.  It seems that weirdly now religions are fair game for critique, but people's self determination of their gender or species (or race) is not?  

I actually find religions (all of them) fascinating.  It’s really interesting to see how they have historically been used to unify and then control people.  Realistically they were required in our evolution in order to set people to a common purpose and provide answers to life’s big questions.  But then of course as we know, a lot of them were corrupted by individual greed and the search for power.   

I’m not religious at all (saves me getting offended or forcing my views upon others), but love a good chat about religion, especially when it’s not just Abrahamic.

[genericUserName]

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

The psychologists are going to be upset with you.

Lol. 

Many people with a science background treat psychology as a pseudoscience. I tend to agree. Certainly not a hard science.

@La_Dolce_Vita

There is all sorts of other nonsense which people believe in. Not only astrology. But also, for example, homeopathy and chiropractic. Why single out religion?

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

The science seems to suggest that gender is a spectrum.

From that perspective, gender seem to be just a word. Conceptually analogous to, say, where people are on a political spectrum. I don't really see why anyone has an issue with that FWIW. But it's not really anything to do with biology. 

[jackwhite]

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

Only if the business profits support a weird cult.

You’ve had the owner confirm they don’t and the other person has told you they’ve left the church. 
 

It’s become ridiculous and it’s an embarrassment for this forum.

 

Narrow minds and Manx crab syndrome all in one thread. 

[The Phantom]

Just now, genericUserName said:

 

Many people with a science background treat psychology as a pseudoscience. I tend to agree. Certainly not a hard science.

* nodding in agreement, yet glad I didn't make that statement 😉

[HeliX]

Just now, jackwhite said:

You’ve had the owner confirm they don’t and the other person has told you they’ve left the church. 
 

It’s become ridiculous and it’s an embarrassment for this forum.

 

Narrow minds and Manx crab syndrome all in one thread. 

This thread is from 2018. Presumably they had not left the church then. If the thread is even about that business, can't be arsed reading it.

[HeliX]

2 minutes ago, genericUserName said:

From that perspective, gender seem to be just a word. Conceptually analogous to, say, where people are on a political spectrum. I don't really see why anyone has an issue with that FWIW. But it's not really anything to do with biology. 

Well, sort of, except there's often biological reasons for how particular people's brains work. But frankly even if there weren't and it was people "choosing" their gender (for the avoidance of doubt, I don't think it is, who the fuck would choose the amount of ire trans people are subjected to?) I'd still hold the same viewpoints on the politics of it.

[jackwhite]

Just now, HeliX said:

This thread is from 2018. Presumably they had not left the church then. If the thread is even about that business, can't be arsed reading it.

The sad person who resurrected it created an account solely to do that. Not that it isn’t obvious who it is.

A business that employs 200 people. You’d be happy to see them all lose their jobs if the owner decided it wasn’t worth the hassle here?

 

 Aren’t you supposed to be liberal? 

[genericUserName]

3 minutes ago, Declan said:

Is a child's belief in Father Christmas bad?

Can you remember ever really believing in Father Christmas? I am fairly sure I always knew it was just a weird convention I was supposed to go along with.

[HeliX]

4 minutes ago, jackwhite said:

The sad person who resurrected it created an account solely to do that. Not that it isn’t obvious who it is.

A business that employs 200 people. You’d be happy to see them all lose their jobs if the owner decided it wasn’t worth the hassle here?

 

 Aren’t you supposed to be liberal? 

I think it's unlikely that a business owner is going to shut their business because of a one nutter on a tiny inconsequential forum.

 

And I'm not a liberal, I'm a communist.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

8 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

I'm (sort of) agreeing with you.  It seems that weirdly now religions are fair game for critique, but people's self determination of their gender or species (or race) is not?  

Religion isn't something wholly intrinsic to the person.  Religious claims are a set of claims about the external world.  Almost all Gods are not purely personal Gods.

And they're fair game because more people have less to fear about being open about how they are irrational. Fewer people are likely to be ostracised and criticised by family and society.  Unfortunately, possibly because most people with some sort of belief in Britain have very fluffy cherry-picked views of their God, which cause less obvious harm, a lot of people think they're fine.

 

[jackwhite]

2 minutes ago, HeliX said:

I think it's unlikely that a business owner is going to shut their business because of a one nutter on a tiny inconsequential forum.

 

And I'm not a liberal, I'm a communist.

I think people don’t realise how things work here.

 

 One person sees it here passes it asking etc. it can hurt a business and I’ve witnessed it do so. 
 

ok you keep babbling nonsense about religion in a thread you haven’t even bothered reading then. 

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, jackwhite said:

I think people don’t realise how things work here.

 

 One person sees it here passes it asking etc. it can hurt a business and I’ve witnessed it do so. 
 

ok you keep babbling nonsense about religion in a thread you haven’t even bothered reading then. 

I try to avoid buying from businesses that support a weird cult that preys on the needy. And I think everyone else should be free to do that too. Not that I'm suggesting any business mentioned is accurately described by that.

[genericUserName]

19 minutes ago, HeliX said:

I'm a communist.

Lol. I realise you are probably joking. But ...

Definitely one of the madder evil belief systems! And a good comparion. Since AFAIK - nobody serious has ever claimed that communism ever worked or helped anyone. At best its adherents will obfuscate and lie - saying that it has never really been tried. Unlike, say, praying, astrology or chiropractic - all equally bonkers but they all seem to sometimes actually help people. And typically do little harm.

Edited March 27, 2023 by genericUserName

[La_Dolce_Vita]

33 minutes ago, Declan said:

Is a child's belief in Father Christmas bad?

Or a fan's belief that his team will beat a more successful opponent?

Or a viewer's belief that a painting is uplifting?

1. Tough one. It's an irrational belief that does bring a lot of joy. Yet it has unique qualities such as very limited scope in its bearing on reality.  It's singularly about one night and presents. And has the rule where children are taught or will learn that such belief is false. Is it ok to lie to children to bring them much joy knowing that they will accept the truth in the future and understand why the lie was told? I think so. But I can see the argument of it being to lie as little as possible.

2. It's irrational if there is no good evidence for it. It's better to be rational here, if unnecessary disappointment is better to be avoided.

3. The view of the painting is a reaction and description of personal experience.  That's quite different to a claim made on a shared reality. The person is not describing how things are for others.  

The painting is something that exists that others can see, feel, and touch. 

[HeliX]

1 minute ago, genericUserName said:

Lol. I realise you are probably joking. But ...

Definitely one of the madder evil belief systems! And a good comparion. Since AFAIK - nobody serious has ever claimed that communism ever worked or helped anyone. At best its adherents will obfuscate and lie - saying that it has never really been tried. Unlike, say, praying, astrology or chiropractic - all equally bonkers but they both seem to sometimes actually help people. And typically do little harm.

Well they'd be right in asserting it's never been tried in fairness. Communism under a dictatorship isn't communism. There's been a couple of goes at Socialism but usually the US stages a coup.