woolley Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 5 hours ago, John Wright said: That is what the government said. I was analysing the Legal position. The legislation states, unequivocally, that the referendum was advisory. The government mustn't have read the legislation. But then Call me Dave was always a bit of a gambler when it came to referenda. He'd won two and he was going for the hat trick. He didn't think he could lose, so the minutiae didn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 minute ago, woolley said: I'm not getting cold feet at all. I am a realist and I always counsel banking what progress you can make in the moment rather than going for broke at the risk of losing everything.u all aspects of life. So why do you support "Leave" then? Silly me, I forgot you can read the future.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 48 minutes ago, woody2 said: so are you claiming the supreme court judgement is incorrect? No, it’s why it was correct. And it was about something totally different, namely, after an advisory referendum result whether it was within the power of the executive, in the form of the PM, exercising Royal prerogative, or Parliament as the Legislature, which had power to implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, P.K. said: So why do you support "Leave" then? Silly me, I forgot you can read the future.... Because I see Leave as the salvation and I don't want to see it wrecked be trying to go the whole hog in one leap. I thought I'd made that clear. I can't read the future, but it isn't difficult to see the way the tide is moving in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, woolley said: The government mustn't have read the legislation. But then Call me Dave was always a bit of a gambler when it came to referenda. He'd won two and he was going for the hat trick. He didn't think he could lose, so the minutiae didn't matter. It was made clear in the parliamentary paper issued on behalf of Dave’s cabinet accompanying the bill, and during debate, that the referendum was non binding and advisory only. Under the UK constitution, and constitutional conventions, a referendum can only ever be binding if its stated to be so in primary legislation. Dave wanted to avoid that because it requires discussing things like super majorities, more than 50% of the total electorate, and he was busy gerrymandering the electoral base, for which he didn’t want parliamentary sruitiny http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7212/CBP-7212.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrie Stevens Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, woolley said: I'm not getting cold feet at all. I am a realist and I always counsel banking what progress you can make in the moment rather than going for broke at the risk of losing everything. It's a business philosophy but applies to all aspects of life. We call this the "Stanley option"...Richard III etc...Brexit means Brexit...Crash out show 'em who is the Daddy...Lots of people will lose their jobs but I have lived through that three times and it was said then "A recession is when your neighbour loses his/her job. A depression is when you lose your job"...We have for forty years sold the UK as the stable gateway to "Europe"...Now that has gone or is going so it is what you wanted. You own it now....Crash out but it will be "Blood, toil, tears and sweat"...Still that is democracy!...I don't give a flying coitus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Quote No, not just get rid of "nasty-foreigners" though certainly get rid of NASTY foreigners, but spell all of those here illegally and wherever they can be identified those here legally but having gained legal status by lying as so many have and do. You didn't say why they want to come to the UK.... Any chance of an answer to that without going off on another xenophobic rant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 26 minutes ago, John Wright said: No, it’s why it was correct. And it was about something totally different, namely, after an advisory referendum result whether it was within the power of the executive, in the form of the PM, exercising Royal prerogative, or Parliament as the Legislature, which had power to implement. it was part of the case, while i agree it was advisory at the time of the referendum, once the supreme court past judgement it was binding, mp's have been corrected by the speaker since the case.... the case was about multiple issues not just a single point..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 20 minutes ago, woolley said: Because I see Leave as the salvation and I don't want to see it wrecked be trying to go the whole hog in one leap. I thought I'd made that clear. I can't read the future, but it isn't difficult to see the way the tide is moving in Europe. There's certainly been a rise in populism that's for sure. Particulary bad news in Italy in my opinion. Exacerbated by the huge influx of refugees across the Med. Same for Greece. I do wonder if the rise in populism is being driven by the increasing complexity and inter-dependencies of modern life. It gets so complex that a simple problem statement followed by a simple (and probably impossible to implement) solution is like a soothing balm to a troubled mind. Or it could be all bollox! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 15 hours ago, Declan said: I don’t think you are going to see the benefit of what I see as benefits. Free movement of people, goods and services. Being part of a co-operative mutually supportive community of nations. The cosmopolitanising and liberalising effect it was having on Britain. These are not benefits, apart from 3 but that is an illusion anyway. The support tends to flow in one direction. 4 will be the destruction of not just the EU, but Europe as we have known it for centuries. Most of the rest of the world does not have this ridiculous liberal mindset. The most dangerous and existential aspect of the threat is that so many Europeans, including British, have been conditioned all of their lives to believe that it is indeed beneficial and laudable, and that anyone who demurs is stupid, despicable or both. I'd say you know who you are, but clearly you don't because they did such a good job on you. Unless we change direction very quickly this will come to pass. While not directly connected to the above, Rog is correct in what he says about imported criminal elements who have brought whole new areas of criminal activity not previously suffered in Britain. Some offences are overwhelmingly committed by single ethnic groups, but when the figures bear this out, the conclusion is that the police must be institutionally racist rather that the more the obvious though uncomfortable one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, P.K. said: There's certainly been a rise in populism that's for sure. Particulary bad news in Italy in my opinion. Exacerbated by the huge influx of refugees across the Med. Same for Greece. I do wonder if the rise in populism is being driven by the increasing complexity and inter-dependencies of modern life. It gets so complex that a simple problem statement followed by a simple (and probably impossible to implement) solution is like a soothing balm to a troubled mind. Or it could be all bollox! Nothing is simple. International affairs are complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, ballaughbiker said: You didn't say why they want to come to the UK.... Any chance of an answer to that without going off on another xenophobic rant? I think that question is more for your side of the debate to answer. I posed it to PK the other day. Why do they want to come to the xenophobic, futureless, potless UK if the EU is so great? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, woolley said: Nothing is simple. International affairs are complex. Apparently not too complex for 52% of those who voted in the referendum.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 Anyway, the Sun is frying my brain now so I'm going in to do some work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 minute ago, P.K. said: Apparently not too complex for 52% of those who voted in the referendum.... Or indeed the 48%. Toodle pip. Happy Tynwald all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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