Advantages/Disadvantages Of The EU

[La Colombe]

Taken from BTL on this article in The Guardian, (author user Doge).

 

Everyone is getting depressed, so let me cheer you up. This is what the EU has done for us...

1. You can live and work legally in any of the 28 countries of the European Union….plus Switzerland, Norway, Liechtenstein, and Iceland!
2. So obviously, you can also visit and stay in all the countries above as much as you want during your holidays or business trips – visa free!
 3. You can study in universities everywhere in the EU for the same tuition as the local citizens…meaning you can even get an undergrad or a master’s degree for FREE!
 4. You have access to the European Health Insurance card which works almost everywhere in Europe!
 5. Free trade agreements within the EU save consumers (like YOU) billions of dollars in tariffs, taxes, and customs checkpoints.
6. If you are a university student in the EU, you can participate in the Erasmus program….which is f#@%ing awesome!
7. Roaming phone costs for you within the EU are much cheaper than out of it…but soon, these costs will be gone entirely!
8. Open skies agreements within the EU and with the US make flying much cheaper for you.
9. You enjoy lower credit card and banking fees within the European Union.
10. The Frontex makes it easier and cheaper to protect the EU’s Schengen external borders.
11. If your country uses the euro, it saves loads by not having to exchange currency every time they do business with other euro countries.
12. If you care about the environment, the European Union is the place to belong to.
13. Big transnational corporations can’t bully around your country when it’s part of the EU.
14. You can easily drive with your local driver’s license anywhere in the EU.
15. It’s much harder for your country to go to war with another country if they are both part of the EU.
16. If you are an EU citizen, you can count on equal pay and nondiscriminatory laws in the workplace.
17. If you are part of the EU, your country saves loads in time and money when dealing with regulations. 
18. You have the right to be protected by the diplomatic and consular authorities of any other EU country while abroad.
19. Loads of EU money is invested in infrastructure and research in your country.
20. Eurojust and Europol help fight criminal networks around the EU to keep you safe!
21. By being part of the EU, you are a counterbalance to Trump’s America and Putin’s Russia.

and
1. Since 1980, the EU turned 13 former dictatorships into democratic countries,
2. The EU has been providing 57% of our trade. 
3. The EU has been Providing funding to areas hit by industrial decline
4. Bathe in our rivers or get drinking water from them without getting cancer.
5. Same for the air. Seen Beijing lately? Neither have the Beijiners.
6. No lead in petrol. That means less cancer and more brain power too.
7. The EU has imposed restrictions on landfill dumping.
8. Now everyone and their dog recycles and it's a good thing.
9. The EU is getting rid of extra Mobile charges when travelling. 
10. Open skies agreement, more low cost flights. Compensation if delay or cancellation
11. Food labelling
12. Banning all sorts of chemicals in your meat and other stuff. 
13. Introduced thousands of measures to guarantee better product safety.
14. Opened markets and Improved competition. Lower prices.
15. Europe-wide patent and copyright protection across 28 countries
16. The euro: no more cost changing notes while traveling in the EuroZone.
18. Travel, live and work across Europe without even thinking about it.
19. Funding for young people to study or work placements abroad.
20. EHIC card for free medical help
21. Vastly improved labour protection and enhanced social welfare!
22. Promoting smoke-free workplaces
23. Forcing through equal pay legislation.
24. Improving paid holiday entitlement.
25. The right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime
26. Protecting wildlife not only here but in the world
27. Forcing through improved animal welfare in food production
28. Funding for research and industrial collaboration
29. Strengthening its representation and influence on the Global scene
30. Building by far the strongest and most influential voice in the WTO
31. Cranking up the diplomacy to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation 
32. Delivering the European arrest warrant, and that is mighty useful.
33. Promoting cross border policing
34. Strengthening internal security with counter terrorism intelligence.
35. European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones
36. Support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond
37. Attracting investment into UK for jobs and many other opportunities.
38. Simplified travel for pet owners going to the continent
39. Reducing supermarket prices by facilitating competition in retail markets. 
40 Delivering 60 years of PEACE after centuries of war and massacres

 

Now, in contrast to that list, what are the advantages of Brexit?

[La Colombe]

No? Ok, I'll start then!

1. Blue Passports

2. Sovereignty

3. Err..

[woolley]

Sovereignty, independence and self-determination of European nations which can co-operate perfectly well together in trade and all matters of mutual interest without the Brussels centre. These are more important than this concocted list.

Talk about accentuating the positive. Many of the items listed are either twisted a long way from reality, are attributed to the EU in error or are not benefits at all. Of course, the Guardian readers will lap it up.

As usual, EU supporters give it credit for everything that is nothing to do with the EU. I particularly like number 40, the old chestnut about the EU and peace. And all of the mentions of "EU money" and the EU "providing funding" are fatuous. As everyone knows, the EU has no money other than that which it extracts from taxpayers in its ever more voracious budget contributions. Keeping prices down? No. Lots of stuff we buy from around the world is expensive because of EU tariffs. We could more beneficially just have a free trade agreement in Europe and negotiate our own arrangements outside, well away from the CAP.  I note he is also championing the euro as a benefit. Quite ironic as the single currency is seemingly doing its level best to bring the whole edifice tumbling down.

[Rog]

6 minutes ago, La Colombe said:

No? Ok, I'll start then!

1. Blue Passports

2. Sovereignty

3. Err..

Number 2 overrides every possible "advantage" most of which are drawbacks anyway.

[Bobbie Bobster]

I think LC was looking for actual, tangible benefits.

 

[woolley]

There aren't many in that long list when you start analysing:

Are they attributable to the EU?

Are they actually beneficial or not? If so is the EU necessary for their preservation?

Are they fanciful?

Are they downright lies?

 

[pongo]

8 minutes ago, woolley said:

Are they downright lies?

Truth is such an old fashioned ideal. Old fashioned conservative liberals like us are going to have to adapt.

 

Quote

Perhaps the most outrageous of the President’s claims is the one that is most easily disproved.

Trump said that he had rocked up in Scotland to predict the outcome of Brexit, when in fact he had visited the country the day after the vote to leave the EU.

He said: “I was cutting a ribbon for the opening of Turnberry - the day before the Brexit vote, and I said: ‘Brexit will happen’. The vote is going to go positive.”

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/donald-trump-the-five-most-outrageous-claims-from-president-s-interview-1-4768519

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/book-party/wp/2018/07/13/feature/can-truth-survive-this-president-an-honest-investigation/?utm_term=.759bc2827599

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

Sovereignty, independence and self-determination of European nations which can co-operate perfectly well together in trade and all matters of mutual interest without the Brussels centre. These are more important than this concocted list.

Talk about accentuating the positive. Many of the items listed are either twisted a long way from reality, are attributed to the EU in error or are not benefits at all. Of course, the Guardian readers will lap it up.

As usual, EU supporters give it credit for everything that is nothing to do with the EU. I particularly like number 40, the old chestnut about the EU and peace. And all of the mentions of "EU money" and the EU "providing funding" are fatuous. As everyone knows, the EU has no money other than that which it extracts from taxpayers in its ever more voracious budget contributions. Keeping prices down? No. Lots of stuff we buy from around the world is expensive because of EU tariffs. We could more beneficially just have a free trade agreement in Europe and negotiate our own arrangements outside, well away from the CAP.  I note he is also championing the euro as a benefit. Quite ironic as the single currency is seemingly doing its level best to bring the whole edifice tumbling down.

How boringly predictable. Just can't help yourself, can you. (<-- Note no question mark. It is, after all, a statement of fact.) You obviously think that by rubbishing the readership you also rubbish the solid argument and reasoned debate.

Talking of rubbishing you forgot to mention the laughable "take back control of our borders" which should appear alongside the frequently debunked "sovereignty" so-called advantage on leaving the EU.

Interesting that those who avidly support Brexit fervently believe that multiculturism can never work. It's almost as though the two are related......

[Declan]

1 hour ago, La Colombe said:

 

2. Sovereignty

 

We had that anyway as European citizens. 

[quilp]

This thread is being presented with the aasumption that most of those 'benefits' will cease to exist.

Will they?

The way it's looking anyway it'll be a feckin 'Kit-Kat Brexit' i.e. A thin layer of exit chocolate over a wafer of remain.

"We're on our way to Naseby we shall not be moved..!"

[mojomonkey]

Reading through that list I'd say some can be attributed to the EU, some would have happened anyway, some are very generic, some are good, some are bad, some are meaningless. Still, always good to have another Brexit thread, they do bring out the best in people.

[pongo]

48 minutes ago, quilp said:

"We're on our way to Naseby we shall not be moved..!"

Is that a quote from somewhere?

Does it refer to the English Civil War battle?

[Rog]

59 minutes ago, P.K. said:

How boringly predictable. Just can't help yourself, can you. (<-- Note no question mark. It is, after all, a statement of fact.) You obviously think that by rubbishing the readership you also rubbish the solid argument and reasoned debate.

Talking of rubbishing you forgot to mention the laughable "take back control of our borders" which should appear alongside the frequently debunked "sovereignty" so-called advantage on leaving the EU.

Interesting that those who avidly support Brexit fervently believe that multiculturism can never work. It's almost as though the two are related......

 Re your last sentence --- they are.  

[P.K.]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

Interesting that those who avidly support Brexit fervently believe that multiculturism can never work. It's almost as though the two are related......

 

27 minutes ago, Rog said:

 Re your last sentence --- they are.  

We used to call it racism.

But xenophobia will do....

[Rog]

49 minutes ago, P.K. said:

 

We used to call it racism.

But xenophobia will do....

Still trying to find a way to play the race card?

Shameful.

Neither is correct.