Fred the shred Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I wouldn’t put money on it there is a vast difference to making the bullets and firing them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 hours ago, littlebushy said: Just had a look at the Facebook poll on Rob Callisters page and the majority support a no confidence vote. I presume he is going to follow through on this? No pun intended! I thought there was no such thing as a no confidence vote in manx politics/ constitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 13 hours ago, Happier diner said: I thought there was no such thing as a no confidence vote in manx politics/ constitution. What made you think that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 38 minutes ago, John Wright said: What made you think that? I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interested Reader Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Is this bloke an idiot? Surely he realizes that it’s up to HIM to find 12 other MHKs to them put in a vote of no confidence as Members of Tynwald if he wants Cannan gone not to get a load of MHKs to ask idiots on Facebook what they think? He literally sounds too stupid to start a revolution. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 13 hours ago, Happier diner said: I thought there was no such thing as a no confidence vote in manx politics/ constitution. Well you can't have a vote of no confidence in the whole thing if that's what you meant. Apart from anything else that would mean that you had no confidence in the system of no confidence. But it's also true that no confidence votes are pretty restricted on the Island. You can't have a no confidence vote in a Minister for example. What you do have is described in the Council of Ministers Act 1990: 2 (3) The Chief Minister shall hold office until — (a) the next general election of members of the House of Keys following his appointment; or (b) a sitting of the House of Keys at which a resolution is passed by the affirmative vote of at least 13 members of the House of Keys, that it has no confidence in the Council of Ministers. This is as amended as at originally LegCo members also had votes and when that was changed they put in a supermajority of 16 votes. It's also an odd way of going about things as you'd think the logical way of voting no confidence in the Chief Minister was to vote no confidence in the Chief Minister rather than CoMin. But the whole system is set up to make get rid of the CM as difficult as possible unlike in other places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheldon Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 10 minutes ago, Interested Reader said: Is this bloke an idiot? You must be new here. 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 12 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: Well you can't have a vote of no confidence in the whole thing if that's what you meant. Apart from anything else that would mean that you had no confidence in the system of no confidence. But it's also true that no confidence votes are pretty restricted on the Island. You can't have a no confidence vote in a Minister for example. What you do have is described in the Council of Ministers Act 1990: 2 (3) The Chief Minister shall hold office until — (a) the next general election of members of the House of Keys following his appointment; or (b) a sitting of the House of Keys at which a resolution is passed by the affirmative vote of at least 13 members of the House of Keys, that it has no confidence in the Council of Ministers. This is as amended as at originally LegCo members also had votes and when that was changed they put in a supermajority of 16 votes. It's also an odd way of going about things as you'd think the logical way of voting no confidence in the Chief Minister was to vote no confidence in the Chief Minister rather than CoMin. But the whole system is set up to make get rid of the CM as difficult as possible unlike in other places. But there are ways round that. A member could propose a resolution: ”This House calls upon the (Chief) Minister ( for Department name ) to resign” Thats not a motion of confidence under the Act, but the result would be the same. The (Chief) Minister would have to go or be fired. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holte End Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 2 hours ago, Interested Reader said: Is this bloke an idiot? Surely he realizes that it’s up to HIM to find 12 other MHKs to them put in a vote of no confidence as Members of Tynwald if he wants Cannan gone not to get a load of MHKs to ask idiots on Facebook what they think? He literally sounds too stupid to start a revolution. You didn't think for one moment he wasn't going to try and squirm his way out of it. Edited February 24 by Holte End Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, John Wright said: But there are ways round that. A member could propose a resolution: ”This House calls upon the (Chief) Minister ( for Department name ) to resign” Thats not a motion of confidence under the Act, but the result would be the same. The (Chief) Minister would have to go or be fired. 1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said: Well you can't have a vote of no confidence in the whole thing if that's what you meant. Apart from anything else that would mean that you had no confidence in the system of no confidence. But it's also true that no confidence votes are pretty restricted on the Island. You can't have a no confidence vote in a Minister for example. What you do have is described in the Council of Ministers Act 1990: 2 (3) The Chief Minister shall hold office until — (a) the next general election of members of the House of Keys following his appointment; or (b) a sitting of the House of Keys at which a resolution is passed by the affirmative vote of at least 13 members of the House of Keys, that it has no confidence in the Council of Ministers. This is as amended as at originally LegCo members also had votes and when that was changed they put in a supermajority of 16 votes. It's also an odd way of going about things as you'd think the logical way of voting no confidence in the Chief Minister was to vote no confidence in the Chief Minister rather than CoMin. But the whole system is set up to make get rid of the CM as difficult as possible unlike in other places. So it turns out you can't get rid of the chief minister by a vote of no confidence, but there are other ways. It's never going to happen though is it. Not unless there are party politics or he goes completely bonkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 minute ago, Happier diner said: So it turns out you can't get rid of the chief minister by a vote of no confidence, but there are other ways. It's never going to happen though is it. Not unless there are party politics or he goes completely bonkers. Yes, you can do it by a confidence vote, but that gets rid of the whole of CoMin, who in our system are his appointees anyway. Yes, that gives him a block vote of 9, so only needs 3 more to stay. Which is what Roger points out. However, say it was 12:12 they couldn’t hang on. In the UK I don’t think votes of confidence are about the PM, or any individual Minister, but in the government. So, it’s not too different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Once again, we are discussing the "failure" and removal of a democratically (as far as being an MHK goes) elected politician. He's had his failures, fair enough - but as ever, it's the unelected that need to be addressed and throwing out the elected is not the way to go about it IMHO. It's the same rinse and repeat, time after time. We need to find out what the obstacles are and remove them. Not the elected, who we just blame on every occasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the shred Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 If my memory serves me correctly when the number dropped from 16 to 13 members it was the lovely Daphne who proposed it of course this happened in Howard’s reign and there was no love lost there. I stand to be corrected on this one it was a while ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 26 minutes ago, John Wright said: Yes, you can do it by a confidence vote, but that gets rid of the whole of CoMin, who in our system are his appointees anyway. Yes, that gives him a block vote of 9, so only needs 3 more to stay. Which is what Roger points out. However, say it was 12:12 they couldn’t hang on. In the UK I don’t think votes of confidence are about the PM, or any individual Minister, but in the government. So, it’s not too different. I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 7 minutes ago, Happier diner said: I see. that's an unexpected change... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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