the stinking enigma Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 It may be soon. Seems a bit overly sensitive to me. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/24/european-parties-urged-agree-israel-boycott-bds-antisemitic-mep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Is that a bit like claiming the SA boycott and disinvestment campaigns against apartheid were racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 hour ago, John Wright said: Is that a bit like claiming the SA boycott and disinvestment campaigns against apartheid were racist? I don't believe that the comparison works. But these are complex and nuanced issues. The BDS grew out of and is closely tied to a broad front which rejects the existence of Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 41 minutes ago, pongo said: I don't believe that the comparison works. But these are complex and nuanced issues. The BDS grew out of and is closely tied to a broad front which rejects the existence of Israel. No, it rejects the treatment by Israel of Arabs and Pestinians inside Israel and in Gaza and the West Bank and Jerusalem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 The movement will undoubtly appeal to antisemites, just as it will appeal to those with genuine concerns for the Palestinian question. Whilst those erstwhile defenders of Palestinian rights go about their business they indirectly support the efforts of well-established Jew-hating terror-groups such as hamas and their affiliates, whose only goal would appear to be the annihilation of Israel which they refuse to recognise as a legitimate state. In this way it is also supporting the Israel-hating mullahs Iran. And whilst those whose ideological hatred threaten Israel continue to exist, there will be no compromise. So who does the BDS fund-raising go to? Who controls its direction? In the same way that UKIP attracted bone-headed racists BDS will have its fair share of anti-Semites. Such organisations give a certain legitimacy to extremist views from both sides. Does BDS vet its members? Is there a need? Pongo is right. There'll be war soon regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, John Wright said: No, it rejects the treatment by Israel of Arabs and Pestinians inside Israel and in Gaza and the West Bank and Jerusalem. Yes, it does. But a notable percentage of Arabs in Israel identify as Israeli-Arabs and reject the notion of Palestinian identity. Without the benefit of employment and healthcare in Israel those who identify as 'Palestinians' would very probably find themselves and their families in dire straits. So quite possibly it's not all Arabs/'Palestinians' who are suffering. It's those "Pestinians" I feel sorry for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 So should it be considered anti-Semitic to boycott Israeli products as a personal choice because that person doesn't agree with some of their apartheid policies? I would imagine most people boycott Israeli products completely unwittingly as it stands now anyway. I do buy plenty of shite that I don't actually need but I've never got to the stage of buying high end medical equipment or leading edge drone technology as yet. I'm not sure what else there is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 My view is that BDS isn't necessarily anti-semitic, but it does have disturbing aspects which to me do verge on the anti-semitic. The objective would seem to be the total isolation of Israel - all encompassing boycotts, disinvestment and sanctions. That is pretty extreme. Now the question to ask is why is this being done. What changes in Israeli policy would allow for the lifting of BDS? Is it possible for Israel to satisfy those calling for BDS while still remaining in existence? Also are the calls for total isolation a reasonable response to Israel's policies. Those aren't easy questions to be answered and probably depend upon the views of individual - BDS isn't as far as I know a single organisation with a clear set of objectives which would result in the lifting of their calls to action. It is an umbrella under which lots of diverse groups shelter some of which will be only satisfied when the "Zionist entity" is no more. My view is that the UN recognised both Israeli and Palestinian sovereignty in 1948 and that principle is important. As is the principle that countries can decide who is allowed or not allowed to migrate to them. Israel causes some pretty basic gut feels in people. My view is that if the existential threat against Israel orchestrated across the Muslim world (and currently lead by Iran) was lifted, and Palestinian groups peacefully campaigned for Palestinian sovereignty while acknowledging Israel's, then Israel would have and be a reasonable partner for peace. Most Israelis would barter the settler movement for peace. The result would be a two state solution with negotiated land for peace compromises. Israel has partnered successfully for peace with Egypt and Jordan and has good relations with them. Sharon genuinely tried to find a peace partner and did sacrifice the settler movement to try to gain peace in the early 2000s. The rejection of that, and the anti-semitic violence whipped up by Hamas and its ilk (paid for via Iranian cash and weapons), are for me the major reason peace hasn't come to the region. Therefore I think people looking for peace in the region should be looking elsewhere than blaming Israel for every wrong, while comforting the Palestinians in all they do. That is what the BDS movement is doing, as far as I'm concerned. And hence I doubt it is bringing political options forward. Hamas IS an anti-semitic organisation. Iran is an existential threat to Israel, funding and encouraging armed groups to attack it. I would not want to be a fellow traveller with people who support these types of organisations. The involvement of anti-semitic groups within BDS is disturbing to me. I do not think it furthers the political dialogue needed to find peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 Is Iran more of an existential threat to Israel than Israel is an existential threat to Iran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Israel doesn't exactly engender sympathy with stupid shit like this https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/New-Zealand-BDSers-We-wont-pay-Israeli-court-fine-569269 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, the stinking enigma said: Is Iran more of an existential threat to Israel than Israel is an existential threat to Iran? If Iran left Israel alone it would be no more of an existential threat to it than Israel is to Turkey or the UK. It is Iran's policies which puts it at odds with Israel. It is Israel's existence which puts it at odds with Iran. If you can't see the difference you are blind and deaf to Iran's policy statements towards Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stinking enigma Posted October 25, 2018 Author Share Posted October 25, 2018 Blindness? That's a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 It's not anti-semitic to boycott products from a country that bombs the shit out of women and children, nor is it Nipponophobia if you boycott products from a country still harvesting whales. It's their government policies and actions that result in people boycotting stuff, not a hatred of their whole people's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said: It's not anti-semitic to boycott products from a country that bombs the shit out of women and children... ...It's their government policies and actions that result in people boycotting stuff, not a hatred of their whole people's. So it's all one-sided is it Albert? Those damn Israeli's just bombing the shit out of those poor 'Palestinians' without any provocation just because they can? The suicide bombings on buses and fast-food outlets, the stabbing of civilians, Jihad attacks by motor car or bus, the balloon incendiaries, a whole family executed during passover, the border skirmishes, the tunnels, the increasingly powerful rocket attacks--they obviously don't count for anything, eh? It is naive in the extreme to not factor in the ancient hatred of Jews, by Islamists-- in particular the terrorist-groups of Hamas, Hezbollah, IS and al-qaeda et al, all of whom seek no peaceful solution and want nothing more than the total annihilation of Israel by any means. This drives much of the violence. Their use of women and children as human shields is well documented, those Land Arabs are pawns in the bigger picture. Then there's Iran and other powerful Islamic nations in close proximity. Israel is a country under permanent siege. Why not try reading some Israeli media outlets, it's a very mixed bag politically but there is stuff going on over there which never seems to reach Western media sources... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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