Suicide Squad

[craggy_steve]

12 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

2009 was a particularly vintage year then.

It was of course the year in which IoMG started cutting back on services due to the first tranche (£114M) of VAT share reduction. No idea whether those service restrictions / extra eligibility tests etc. had any impacts on some of the more vulnerable which contributed to the increased number of suicides in 2009 and the following years - but it's a plausible coincidence.

[WTF]

great film.

[Non-Believer]

3 hours ago, craggy_steve said:

It was of course the year in which IoMG started cutting back on services due to the first tranche (£114M) of VAT share reduction. No idea whether those service restrictions / extra eligibility tests etc. had any impacts on some of the more vulnerable which contributed to the increased number of suicides in 2009 and the following years - but it's a plausible coincidence.

Well it certainly wouldn't have been any of the PS management ranks. They've been coining it in ever since with gay abandon....

[yootalkin2me]

25 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Well it certainly wouldn't have been any of the PS management ranks. They've been coining it in ever since with gay abandon....

Money, or flack thereof, is not the only reason for suicide, therefore there could very well be PS among the deceased.

[finlo]

10 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

Money, or flack thereof, is not the only reason for suicide, therefore there could very well be PS among the deceased.

Doubtful with the juicy early pension they've got to look forward too!

[yootalkin2me]

56 minutes ago, finlo said:

Doubtful with the juicy early pension they've got to look forward too!

You obviously have little or no concept of suicide if you think that the promise of a financial windfall is enough to bring them from the darkness into the light if money wasn't the reason for feeling suicidal.

[finlo]

9 minutes ago, yootalkin2me said:

You obviously have little or no concept of suicide if you think that the promise of a financial windfall is enough to bring them from the darkness into the light if money wasn't the reason for feeling suicidal.

How demoralizing must it be for some dude to have to get up early and go and dig holes in the roads in all weather until he's 70 knowing others sat in their air conditioned/central heated  office will be sailing off into the sunset with a wheelbarrow full of cash in their mid fifties.

[chancer]

On 11/26/2018 at 8:58 PM, 2112 said:

No not the IOM version of the DC comics.

As mentioned by the IOMG Mouthpiece-

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/tynwald-launches-suicide-inquiry/

Without being too flippant, the subject isn’t one in which should be used as a ‘political’ football or tool, for some of our politicos who merely ride on the coattails of unpleasant and fatal consequences when people take their own lives. Sadly with our MHKs and MLCs they see political capital to be made out of this subject. 

This must really be the Manx-crabist post this year.  You really are a fucktard.  Anything that reduces suicide, even for one person, should be taken as a positive step.  Negative life-sucking Manx Crabs like you and some of the other shite spewers on here are part of the problem.  

[yootalkin2me]

1 minute ago, finlo said:

How demoralizing must it be for some dude to have to get up early and go and dig holes in the roads in all weather until he's 70 knowing others sat in their air conditioned/central heated  office will be sailing off into the sunset with a wheelbarrow full of cash in their mid fifties.

Yes, I'm quite sure it is, however, why you feel the need to bring Government employees and their terms and conditions into a topic about suicide is beyond me.

[yootalkin2me]

2 minutes ago, chancer said:

This must really be the Manx-crabist post this year.  You really are a fucktard.  Anything that reduces suicide, even for one person, should be taken as a positive step.  Negative life-sucking Manx Crabs like you and some of the other shite spewers on here are part of the problem.  

Agreed, whether we approve of Politicians or not is irrelevant as they are part and parcel of our democratic government and they drive policy, sometimes the policies are utter bollocks and sometimes they're not....in this case it is the latter.

[Whatnonsence]

Gathering any evidence which involves Mental Health issues is notoriously difficult.

It requires an Independent body hearing the evidence which should be protected with animinity

No patient or person suffering from Mental Health problems or carer is going to give evidence without that protection.

If Tynwald can guarantee witnesses are not named then they will make massive advances into securing a far better

idea of what is going critically wrong in the treatment and protection of the most vulnerable in our society.

 

 

[2112]

20 hours ago, chancer said:

This must really be the Manx-crabist post this year.  You really are a fucktard.  Anything that reduces suicide, even for one person, should be taken as a positive step.  Negative life-sucking Manx Crabs like you and some of the other shite spewers on here are part of the problem.  

I stand by my comments, which opened this topic.

Yes, I agree that anything that reduces suicide, even for one person could be seen as a positive step. 

However having a select committee of either Keys chancers or Tynpotwalders, fills me - sorry horrifies me. The Health Services both Nobles and Ballamona/Drug and Alcohol Team/Manannan Court/Graighnagh Court ....... have had fortunes spent, a money no object attitude - yet the health services are in dire circumstances, financially and politically. 

Having a group of idiots pretending to care, show empathy and compassion to a subject matter, really is asking to much. We may call Bill Henderson MLC many times, but at least he had some mental health experiences, nursing and as a trade union representative. 

Finally, if a committee is established, the outcome is bound to recommend spending more money on Mental Health Services and a Suicde Prevention Strategy (I would have thought that there would be strategy in place - after all there is a strategy for virtually all aspects of island life)

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, Whatnonsence said:

Gathering any evidence which involves Mental Health issues is notoriously difficult.

It requires an Independent body hearing the evidence which should be protected with animinity

No patient or person suffering from Mental Health problems or carer is going to give evidence without that protection.

If Tynwald can guarantee witnesses are not named then they will make massive advances into securing a far better

idea of what is going critically wrong in the treatment and protection of the most vulnerable in our society.

 

 

My very personal view is that the Committee and all the money in the world spent on Mental Health Services won’t make much difference.

Its a societal problem caused by they way we live, pace, pressure, expectation, isolation, alienation, lack of inclusion, feelings of not being worthy or valued and contrast between perceived have and have not. We need to cure that.

Then it’s about no one listening. I think most people with depression, anxiety, bereavement, separation or suicidal thoughts want to express their feelings, get them out in the open. Most people just respond with “pull yourself together”.

I think that’s where the unconditional listening and time unlimited acceptance of Samaritans comes in. I know government used to assist with running expenses, but don’t think they do any more.

I certainly don’t see them advertised as much, and I wonder what the level of public awareness is?

Then, specifically in relation to the Isle of Man, being a small community it’s more likely that suicide will be recognised by the authorities and referred to the Coroner, than in an anonymous big city. So reported and recorded rates are likely to be skewed higher.

i don’t think the recent rate is any higher than between 1979 and 1985 when I compiled the statistics for the local Samaritan branch. You also have to be careful of single year statistical blips distorting long term trends. 10 to end August is meaningless. When did they die? Some of the deaths may have been in previous years. Coroner’s investigations can be prolonged, especially when looking at lack of care.

My final impression is that means have changed. In the 1980’s it was hanging, self inflicted gun shots and pills. Most had very little contact with medical, mental health or social services. Of course they were even more inadequate then than now.

However the preponderance of young men has remained, but even there there is a change, I think, in that now it is more likely to be after prolonged substance abuse and dependency than it was 40 years ago.

Edited November 28, 2018 by John Wright

[Max Power]

I think you are right in what you say John, do you think that an extension of the Samaritans who people can be referred to if they are seeking help would be useful? I'm sure that people who are suffering from depression or have problems coping, often will not voluntarily contact the Samaritans but those who do seek help from a GP or A&E are just sent home with a referral for a trip to occupational therapy or some sugar pills! 

I know of several young people over the years who have just put a hose from their exhaust through their car window, often without any warning that anything is wrong. They obviously would never have sought help and as you say, we can only try and reduce the causes.

[John Wright]

It’s hard to demonstrate the effectiveness of organisations like Samaritans. 

My belief is that they are extremely effective.

Not sure what volunteer numbers are like here, how many hours they offer drop in or staff phones locally.

Indeed the locally may be a perceived issue causing people not to contact because they are afraid of being identified.

i was a volunteer on student nightline for two years at university, then 6 years at Samaritans here, followed by 10 years as a volunteer on the local LGBT helpline.i then was involved in setting up Victim Support.

Samaritans then were open for calls 2pm to 8am daily and 24 hours at weekends and 2 to 8pm for drop in. Always double staffed.

Because of a UK wide drop in volunteering, especially for overnight duties, and to use resources efficiently, there is now a national number and a complicated computer virtual exchange that is programmed to know when branches are staffed and phones available.

It works in a cascade. If the caller can be geographically located then to the nearest branch with a free phone, then the next, and so on.

So, I’m led to believe that the individual branches are staffed for fewer hours than previously, but their time is used effectively.

Returning to your question, yes, every Doctor and nurse and social worker and health care professional, and premises from which they work, should have Samaritans cards to hand out. And should do so.

I know that this happened with Victim Support. The police had cards to hand out. It upped self referral rates no end. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by John Wright