Neil Down Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 27 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: I personally remember bullying classmates for being "creepy" or "gay". Some of those classmates have subsequently come out as being homosexual and I deeply regret my actions. I have been fortunate enough to have realised the error of my ways and have some very good friends who are gay. Perhaps if I had been taught in primary school that some people are different and it is okay for men to love men and women to love women then perhaps I would have understood and classmates would not have been subjected to bullying. In high school it can be too late especially around puberty to start delivering these messages. small children rarely have the prejudices you state. My granddaughter (8) loves nothing better to knock around with some of the boys in her school. It has already been "expressed" to her mother that maybe she identifies as being a boy. What a crock of shit. When we were at school, we called them tomboys but have grown into some of the loveliest women around. Bullies however, tend to go for the weakest regardless of sex or gender. High school is the ideal place to start informing them as they will be better equipped to understand what is being explained to them 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Neil Down said: High school is the ideal place to start informing them as they will be better equipped to understand what is being explained to them You're still not saying the why to your argument. Primary school children receive "relationship" education, which is not the same as sex education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Neil Down said: What a crock of shit. When we were at school... Just out of interest, what was your parents views on gay people when you are school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 37 minutes ago, Neil Down said: small children rarely have the prejudices you state. My granddaughter (8) loves nothing better to knock around with some of the boys in her school. It has already been "expressed" to her mother that maybe she identifies as being a boy. What a crock of shit. When we were at school, we called them tomboys but have grown into some of the loveliest women around. Bullies however, tend to go for the weakest regardless of sex or gender. High school is the ideal place to start informing them as they will be better equipped to understand what is being explained to them I agree that small children don't have prejudices. They are learnt either from peer groups or parents/grandparents. As for your granddaughter, I am not going to suggest that she is trans, and I would not even refer to her as a "tomboy". If, however, she started coming to you asking why she was not like the boys then perhaps you would agree that there is need for a conversation? Even at that point if she said she wanted to be a boy I would not be suggesting anything more radical than giving her support and space to discuss her feelings. If you were to "punish" her or scold her for having those feelings it will have a negative effect on your relationship with her. In all likelihood though your granddaughter is just a typical child who sees boys and girls as equals with no real concern over who she plays with. Wouldn't it be a better world if we could all just accept each other like children do? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 "Racism isn't born, folks, it's taught. I have a two-year-old son. You know what he hates? Naps! End of list." Denis Leary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 54 minutes ago, RIchard Britten said: Just out of interest, what was your parents views on gay people when you are school? I have no idea, but given my mother's brother was gay, I would imagine very tolerant. Sorry to shatter any theories you may be harbouring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Neil Down said: I have no idea, but given my mother's brother was gay, I would imagine very tolerant. Sorry to shatter any theories you may be harbouring Not harbouring any "theories", just trying to find out (unsuccessfully after several pages) what is the actual problem you have with kids have relationship education at primary school and why you feel they should have to wait until their teens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, RIchard Britten said: Not harbouring any "theories", just trying to find out (unsuccessfully after several pages) what is the actual problem you have with kids have relationship education at primary school and why you feel they should have to wait until their teens? Maybe you are just stirring and looking for something that isn't there. After all, it is your modus operandi on this forum... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just now, Neil Down said: Maybe you are just stirring and looking for something that isn't there. After all, it is your modus operandi on this forum... Fine. Don't answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rushen Spy Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I wish this thread was about vampires. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Grounds Keeper Willy said: Just because you’ve been bitten by a vampire doesn’t turn a biological mortal man or woman into an immortal blood sucking vampire! It’s too weird to contemplate! Seems to work with Tynwald.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 On 1/17/2020 at 1:54 PM, RIchard Britten said: Not harbouring any "theories", just trying to find out (unsuccessfully after several pages) what is the actual problem you have with kids have relationship education at primary school and why you feel they should have to wait until their teens? Richard, you don’t seem to understand what decades of cultural and societal indoctrination does to individuals. It’s hard, if not impossible, to simply reject what you were brought up as knowing to be right. I’m almost 50. Neil’s older I imagine. When I was a kid homosexuality wasn’t illegal but it wasn’t far off, and for my parents generation it most certainly was. I remember my dad had a work colleague he’d known for years and used to drink with. Never married. In about 1985 he was either outed or came out as gay, which was a big deal. On finding this out my dad didn’t want to sit near him in the pub, until my mum told him not to be ridiculous, nothing had changed. My dad wasn’t a bigot of any sort, he’d just grown up through an era where ‘those things’ weren’t talked about. If he were alive today I imagine he’d still feel the same about ‘Peter and John’ books etc, despite society moving on. Progressive youngsters need to accept that they can’t change the way previous generations feel about things, even if they can influence the way they think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Down Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 8 hours ago, wrighty said: Richard, you don’t seem to understand what decades of cultural and societal indoctrination does to individuals. It’s hard, if not impossible, to simply reject what you were brought up as knowing to be right. I’m almost 50. Neil’s older I imagine. When I was a kid homosexuality wasn’t illegal but it wasn’t far off, and for my parents generation it most certainly was. I remember my dad had a work colleague he’d known for years and used to drink with. Never married. In about 1985 he was either outed or came out as gay, which was a big deal. On finding this out my dad didn’t want to sit near him in the pub, until my mum told him not to be ridiculous, nothing had changed. My dad wasn’t a bigot of any sort, he’d just grown up through an era where ‘those things’ weren’t talked about. If he were alive today I imagine he’d still feel the same about ‘Peter and John’ books etc, despite society moving on. Progressive youngsters need to accept that they can’t change the way previous generations feel about things, even if they can influence the way they think. Wasting your time Wrighty, he was looking for an argument. I'm certainly older than you but thankfully my parents taught us that being gay was never an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 4 hours ago, Neil Down said: Wasting your time Wrighty, he was looking for an argument. I'm certainly older than you but thankfully my parents taught us that being gay was never an issue. I'm almost certainly of a similar generation, 242, and I have the philosophy that I don't care if you are red, black, yellow whatever, or if you are LGBT, plus, whatever as long as you are a decent person that's all I care about. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skychie Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 On 12/6/2018 at 10:06 AM, quilp said: Pretty much everything you said in your first post about there being no medical evidence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01237-z https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402034/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/ https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/85/5/2034/2660626 https://www.jneurosci.org/content/22/3/1027 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1053811909003176?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022395610001585?via%3Dihub I could go on, but it poses the question about "the issue". And that's....is there an issue if you don't make it an issue?. Most people who have an issue with it are the ones who create the issue in the first place 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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