The 'Trans' Issue.

[Chie]

19 hours ago, The Phantom said:

To be honest I'm not really bothered she got fired for whatever she did. It's more the thought that if blackface is racist why is drag not sexist?

 

I can't say I have ever watched a drag act and thought it to be representative of being a women. I have always seen the character of drag as being a character in its own right, that parodies the extreme stereotypes that we find in society today. To me, it seems to turn those stereotypes into a performance piece that in part supersedes the concept of sex based identity, to create an entirely new identity that turns a series of negatives into a performative and enjoyable positive.

But thats just my opinion. If we go down the road of the question you are posing, we then need to look at pantomime dames and drag kings. Do you consider a drag king to be offensive?.

[Chie]

5 minutes ago, quilp said:

Usual long-winded and meaningless bollocks. 

Usual "brush off" comment when they aren't interested in considering anything outside of their world view or perhaps, thinking outside of their tiny box.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Chie

[quilp]

Touché...

[Passing Time]

7 minutes ago, Chie said:

Usual "brush off" comment when they aren't interested in considering anything outside of their world view or perhaps, thinking outside of their tiny box.

Do you have a tiny box?

[Chie]

Just now, Passing Time said:

Do you have a tiny box?

We all have tiny boxes. We all live contained in our own perceptions of the world. I do however try to listen to the views and opinions of others and expand my box. Hence why I listened to both sides of the debate on this issue as it directly affects me.

[The Phantom]

8 minutes ago, Chie said:

I can't say I have ever watched a drag act and thought it to be representative of being a women. I have always seen the character of drag as being a character in its own right, that parodies the extreme stereotypes that we find in society today. To me, it seems to turn those stereotypes into a performance piece that in part supersedes the concept of sex based identity, to create an entirely new identity that turns a series of negatives into a performative and enjoyable positive.

But thats just my opinion. If we go down the road of the question you are posing, we then need to look at pantomime dames and drag kings. Do you consider a drag king to be offensive?.

Nah, I'm not offended by blackface, drag queens or very little else to be honest.  I'm more curious to as to why others are offended by one and not the other.  I find that the offense people feel towards things is usually due to the fact they are unable to control their emotions, think rationally/critically, or understand (not necessarily agree) with other peoples viewpoints.  Of course things like blackface are sometimes done maliciously, but this isn't usually the case, it's usually ignorance. 

I think a lot of drag does play upon some of the negative stereotypes of women to be honest.  For instance why do a lot of them have slutty names and provocative outfits?  But I'm not offended by it and neither are most people and especially the the most vocal of the offended who are usually the guys transitioning to be girls.  You never really seem to hear from trans people the other way (girls to guys) in sport or any other situation where they feel they are being oppressed, which again is weird. 

 

 

 

[Chie]

16 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

You never really seem to hear from trans people the other way (girls to guys) in sport or any other situation where they feel they are being oppressed, which again is weird. 

There is never a discussion about this is why. A lot of the hate on trans people is based on the concept of "man body = better body" which in itself isn't necessarily true. No one seems to care about things the other way round. There is still prejudice and contempt though. What I personally find funny is the gender critics like to complain and show true rage about how the trans agenda is forcing young women to become men. Yet, you never hear of them complaining when a trans man uses a mens toilet, changing room or similar. No talk of what they see as an innocent and confused woman entering a den of dangerous men.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Chie

[The Phantom]

4 minutes ago, Chie said:

There is never a discussion about this is why. A lot of the hate on trans people is based on the concept of "man body = better body" which in itself isn't necessarily true. No one seems to care about things the other way round. There is still prejudice and contempt though. What I personally find funny is the gender critics like to complain and show true rage about how the trans agenda is forcing young women to become men. Yet, you never hear of them complaining when a trans man uses a mens toilet, changing room or similar. No talk of what they see as an innocent and confused woman entering a den of dangerous men.

I honestly think that men in dresses have successfully hijacked the feminist/female empowerment agenda. It's genius really.  

[Passing Time]

9 minutes ago, Chie said:

There is never a discussion about this is why. A lot of the hate on trans people is based on the concept of "man body = better body" which in itself isn't necessarily true. No one seems to care about things the other way round. There is still prejudice and contempt though. What I personally find funny is the gender critics like to complain and show true rage about how the trans agenda is forcing young women to become men. Yet, you never hear of them complaining when a trans man uses a mens toilet, changing room or similar. No talk of what they see as an innocent and confused woman entering a den of dangerous men.

What are you smoking?

[Declan]

13 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

What are you smoking?

What Chie's doing in the bit you are highlighting is saying nobody says that ftm trans people are vulnerable woman and that a men's changing area is a dangerous place for them. But that is the mirror image of the argument some people make about mtf trans people  sharing facilities with women. The highlighted bit isn't her opinion she's pointing out a logical fallicy in many people's argument. 

I sometimes think you reply without thinking

[Passing Time]

1 minute ago, Declan said:

What Chie's doing in the bit you are highlighting is saying nobody says that ftm trans people are vulnerable woman and that a men's changing area is a dangerous place for them. But that is the mirror image of the argument some people make about mtf trans people  sharing facilities with women. The highlighted bit isn't her opinion she's pointing out a logical fallicy in many people's argument. 

I sometimes think you reply without thinking

I always thing that you should just get off the fence

[Declan]

OK. I think you're thick. 

[HeliX]

2 hours ago, The Phantom said:

I honestly think that men in dresses have successfully hijacked the feminist/female empowerment agenda. It's genius really.  

Is there any fathomable evidence that would make you reconsider your position that trans women are "men in dresses"?

Not sure the rest makes sense - men are already in a considerably better position than women in terms of empowerment. Becoming a woman and hijacking the "female empowerment agenda" would be a step down.

[wrighty]

3 hours ago, Passing Time said:

Do you have a tiny box?

Pathetic effort. You sometimes post reasonable stuff, but this attempt at Viz style euphemism was not your best in what has been a relatively informed thread. 

[Chie]

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

Is there any fathomable evidence that would make you reconsider your position that trans women are "men in dresses"?

Not sure the rest makes sense - men are already in a considerably better position than women in terms of empowerment. Becoming a woman and hijacking the "female empowerment agenda" would be a step down.

This. It would be slightly defeatist in a patriarchal world view to transition to female. That’s not at all why we do it.