The 'Trans' Issue.

[Declan]

6 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Fr Robin Farrow was a CofE ordained minister. He, and his wife, Caroline, converted to Catholicism because of the CofE acceptance of women clergy and bishops and gay clergy.

But they're relaxed about married priests.

[John Wright]

4 hours ago, Declan said:

But they're relaxed about married priests.

Unless they’re same sex!

Having been brought up in the Methodist tradition we had women lay preachers and ministers. I really didn’t understand the fuss about women priests.

[HeliX]

 

[Newbie]

On 10/14/2022 at 11:53 PM, HeliX said:

 

The video certainly illustrates the main problem with the debate, namely that the level of vitriol (particularly on Social Media) prevents nuanced discussion of what are complex issues. It forces people into two groups who are bitterly opposed to each other, and there is an assumption that if you agree with one thing that a person says, you automatically agree with everything they say. In other words that the group identity is the only thing that matters rather than individual identity. In the real world, things don't work that way. Throughout the whole of life you have to work with people who you might not agree with 100% in order to make progress. You might not agree with them at all but you still have to work to try to find a common way forward. Currently, with regard to Trans rights, that level of debate doesn't appear possible. That is the fault of people on both sides of the debate, not just one side.

[manxfisherman]

Here's a take from John Oliver from yesterdays show, its worth a watch

 

[quilp]

Existential fluidity explained..

 

 

[Newbie]

15 hours ago, manxfisherman said:

Here's a take from John Oliver from yesterdays show, its worth a watch

 

He makes some good points, although given that he is dealing mainly with gender identity in children and adolescents, I am surprised he didn't mention the Cass Review even if only to bring a bit of balance. Perhaps it is because it is aimed at an American audience, or perhaps he felt he couldn't get enough laughs out of it.

[The Phantom]

He/she/him/her/they/them....

I just use 'THE' as my pronoun. 

[Declan]

3 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

I just use 'THE' as my pronoun. 

Surely it's your pre-noun.

[The Phantom]

1 minute ago, Declan said:

Surely it's your pre-noun.

Don't oppress my expression Declan. 

[aankhka]

Those who fail to learn from the lessons of the past, are doomed to repeat them in the future, lc

[Chie]

On 10/18/2022 at 10:05 AM, Newbie said:

He makes some good points, although given that he is dealing mainly with gender identity in children and adolescents, I am surprised he didn't mention the Cass Review even if only to bring a bit of balance. Perhaps it is because it is aimed at an American audience, or perhaps he felt he couldn't get enough laughs out of it.

Have you read the Cass report? Like, not the various websites claiming what it says, the actual report itself? It's not what you think. It's not a piece of anti trans vitriol, that's just what the TERF brigade is claiming it is. It addressed issues surrounding access to treatment for trans kids, treatment options, waiting lists and more etc etc and the end result was Tavistock closing and the eventual opening of multiple regional centres that will give trans kids way better access to treatment and therapy. Those of us in the trans community are actually celebrating this as even we thought Tavistock, through no fault of its own really given the sheer size of the waiting list and lack of extra funding and care from the NHS/Government, was a shit show.

[Chie]

On 10/17/2022 at 11:09 AM, Newbie said:

The video certainly illustrates the main problem with the debate, namely that the level of vitriol (particularly on Social Media) prevents nuanced discussion of what are complex issues. It forces people into two groups who are bitterly opposed to each other, and there is an assumption that if you agree with one thing that a person says, you automatically agree with everything they say. In other words that the group identity is the only thing that matters rather than individual identity. In the real world, things don't work that way. Throughout the whole of life you have to work with people who you might not agree with 100% in order to make progress. You might not agree with them at all but you still have to work to try to find a common way forward. Currently, with regard to Trans rights, that level of debate doesn't appear possible. That is the fault of people on both sides of the debate, not just one side.

Really what it boils down to is this...

The critics are getting older, they are unable to deal with it, they see the world changing around them and it challenges their perceived sense of what is "normal". Half of them have suffered abuse at the hands of cis men, JK is a perfect example of this. This fear and anger is generating a ridiculous panic / hysteria whose flames are being fanned by the mainstream media and various prominent right wing figures into what you see before you today. And it is literally this, that is actually damaging women rights, not trans people using a toilet. As an example, you have figures such as Posie Parker recently stating that it is acceptable to buddy up with hardcore right leaning individuals who are against female bodily autonomy if it means destroying the trans agenda. As shown, in proof, by the attendees of her recent UK events. Meaning, she is literally willing to forego the right to choose what she does with her own body if it means destroying trans people. You now have cis girls, in the US, who are being witch hunted by school boards and sports organisations because they just so happen to be better than their fellow competitors. What they are doing is saying that this little box here [ ] is what being a woman is. If you fall outside of it, cis or not, you will be harassed, bullied, intimidated, threatened and your rights taken from you.

The best part is, it's happening right in front of everyone and none of these bellends are willing to stop and take a look at what is actually happening all around them.

We (trans people) have been around since the dawn of human civilisation. We have been using bathrooms, changing rooms, rape crisis centres, hospital wards and everything in between for literally....ever... and only now it is an issue. Being trans isn't something that was just invented in 2017, its been there all along. Yes, some trans people do a wrong thing and while I am not condoning those wrong things, so does everyone else.

Women and children are abused daily by cis men, there is a rising epidemic of cis female teachers having relations with their male students and 99.9% of all rape of a woman or child is committed by a cis male, that includes 99.9% of all rapes in a toilet. These are simple facts and all researchable.

At this point, I'm beyond sympathy or compassion for those who have bought into all this nonsense. The info is there, read the actual reports, search the actual statistics, stop listening to that YouTube channel, Steve down the pub, Twitter and that bellend Jordan Peterson.

Until that happens and people stop buying into this Twitterfear media hype, a sensible discussion can not be had.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Chie

[Chie]

Maybe I should host a trans Q&A thread where I engage people in sensible discussion on trans issues and answer all of the questions they may have, on things they do not understand 🤔

[quilp]

On 10/23/2022 at 3:32 AM, Chie said:

Maybe I should host a trans Q&A thread where I engage people in sensible discussion on trans issues and answer all of the questions they may have, on things they do not understand 🤔

Pointless.

https://freethinker.co.uk/2022/10/the-falsehood-at-the-heart-of-the-trans-movement/