The 'Trans' Issue.

[The Phantom]

Awaken with JP has done a rather hilarious skit on it, which in my mind is more or less exactly happened! 

And this is reality...

 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

Well, there is one way to solve the debate.

The Women's Tour has been cancelled due to a lack of funding.

[thommo2010]

1 hour ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Well, there is one way to solve the debate.

The Women's Tour has been cancelled due to a lack of funding.

Going off topic a bit but it is like womens football and them bleating on about being paid the same as men, fact is women don't support the sport as much as men do, the revenue is tiny compared to mens sports. Maybe if more women supported it rather than going on about being hard done by then then more money will go into the sports 

[The Phantom]

1 hour ago, thommo2010 said:

Going off topic a bit but it is like womens football and them bleating on about being paid the same as men, fact is women don't support the sport as much as men do, the revenue is tiny compared to mens sports. Maybe if more women supported it rather than going on about being hard done by then then more money will go into the sports 

It's harsh, but true. 

Surely more 'women's' brands also need to get behind it and sponsor the women's sports events.  

[wrighty]

1 hour ago, thommo2010 said:

Going off topic a bit but it is like womens football and them bleating on about being paid the same as men, fact is women don't support the sport as much as men do, the revenue is tiny compared to mens sports. Maybe if more women supported it rather than going on about being hard done by then then more money will go into the sports 

I always thought it was a bit rich the women tennis players wanting pay parity (which they now have) when a typical Wimbledon women's final was one of the Williams sisters blasting someone off the court in two sets to love in 45 minutes whereas the men's final was a 5-hour, 5-set Federer-Nadal epic.  The viewing public, male or female, would pay more to see the latter I'm sure.

Sport, at professional level, is a commercial activity.  Market forces will dictate the rewards the players get, and as more people will pay more to see men compete compared with women, it seems, then men get paid more.

At the Olympic games men and women get the same medals.  Being pseudo-amateur, that's how it should be.

[Passing Time]

5 hours ago, The Phantom said:

Awaken with JP has done a rather hilarious skit on it, which in my mind is more or less exactly happened! 

And this is reality...

 

Is the girl in the top clip from Peel? Asking for a friend...

[Two-lane]

6 hours ago, wrighty said:

Ludicrous, if true. 

Prepare to be ludicrised:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7dyJfUxgOw

 

[Two-lane]

6 hours ago, The Phantom said:

Yep I saw this too

Does YouTube also send you videos of women pole-vaulters too? I have no idea why they do that, because the sport is of no interest to me. I only watch the videos out of politeness.

[The Phantom]

3 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

Does YouTube also send you videos of women pole-vaulters too? I have no idea why they do that, because the sport is of no interest to me. I only watch the videos out of politeness.

I often wonder how you get into Pole Vault.  At no point in my entire life have I ever had that opportunity! 

I used to follow AwakenJP quite a bit, he was really funny when taking the piss out of a lot of the Spiritual stuff a few years ago.  However he went a bit MAGA over lockdown and super political, which kind of turned me off most of his stuff. 

[Roxanne]

37 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

I used to follow AwakenJP quite a bit, he was really funny when taking the piss out of a lot of the Spiritual stuff a few years ago.  However he went a bit MAGA over lockdown and super political, which kind of turned me off most of his stuff. 

That was exactly my story with him too. It was kind of funny watching your video after a break of a year or so. 

[HeliX]

4 hours ago, The Phantom said:

I used to follow AwakenJP quite a bit, he was really funny when taking the piss out of a lot of the Spiritual stuff a few years ago.  However he went a bit MAGA over lockdown and super political, which kind of turned me off most of his stuff. 

He has a terminal case of brain rot.

[Ghost Ship]

On 3/24/2023 at 12:44 PM, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Most are asking for the right to piss in peace and to exist without fear of violence and retribution.

Not that many are professional athletes or budding to be professional athletes.

But, it's the perception that they all are that sells papers.

It doesn't need to be either "all" or "that many", does it?  (And it's irrelevant whether it sells papers or not).

The problem in the sporting arena remains the simple one of biological males competing in women's sports events and pretending that they do so on equal terms and that they do not have an unfair advantage over biological women:

Austin Killips: Transgender cyclist’s win prompts fresh criticism (thetimes.co.uk)

I believe that in the race in which they won the 40-44 age classification, Lingwood also finished 5th overall and Austin Killips finished 3rd overall.  So that's two biological males in the top five of the US women's cyclocross championships.

 

Don't actually know if this is correct or not, but if it is it highlights the downside that allowing biological men to compete against women discourages women from taking part...

Coach on Twitter: "This 👇🏻it’s already happening. Women have dropped out of indoor rowing competitions because they come up against males time and again. TEN British and THREE World Indoor Rowing Women’s records are held by males. @Telegraph @WomensSport" / Twitter

 

Edited May 1, 2023 by Ghost Ship

[AcousticallyChallenged]

12 hours ago, Ghost Ship said:

It doesn't need to be either "all" or "that many", does it?  (And it's irrelevant whether it sells papers or not).

The problem in the sporting arena remains the simple one of biological males competing in women's sports events and pretending that they do so on equal terms and that they do not have an unfair advantage over biological women

There isn't a simple answer to the sporting question, it is okay to acknowledge that.

But, the issue, which does impact a minority of trans people, and sportspeople as a whole, is also being used to denigrate the transgender population and becomes part of the targeting they experience, as it's currently more palatable than other forms of xenophobia.

[The Phantom]

16 hours ago, Ghost Ship said:

It doesn't need to be either "all" or "that many", does it?  (And it's irrelevant whether it sells papers or not).

The problem in the sporting arena remains the simple one of biological males competing in women's sports events and pretending that they do so on equal terms and that they do not have an unfair advantage over biological women:

Austin Killips: Transgender cyclist’s win prompts fresh criticism (thetimes.co.uk)

I believe that in the race in which they won the 40-44 age classification, Lingwood also finished 5th overall and Austin Killips finished 3rd overall.  So that's two biological males in the top five of the US women's cyclocross championships.

 

Don't actually know if this is correct or not, but if it is it highlights the downside that allowing biological men to compete against women discourages women from taking part...

Coach on Twitter: "This 👇🏻it’s already happening. Women have dropped out of indoor rowing competitions because they come up against males time and again. TEN British and THREE World Indoor Rowing Women’s records are held by males. @Telegraph @WomensSport" / Twitter

 

Another American cyclist, Hannah Arensman, said in a document submitted to a US court that she had retired from the sport after finishing in fourth place behind Killips in the US’s National Cyclocross Championships in November. Footage of the race shows Killips at one point pushing Arensman over as she attempts to overtake.

Arensman said in the court document submitted in March: “I have decided to end my cycling career. At my last race at the recent UCI Cyclocross National Championships in the elite women’s category in December 2022, I came in fourth place, flanked on either side by male riders awarded third and fifth places.

“My sister and family sobbed as they watched a man finish in front of me, having witnessed several physical interactions with him throughout the race.”

[The Voice of Reason]

I offer no comment on the article I am posting below. I dont think it needs any. 
People can make their own minds up.

 

Authorities must act swiftly before women are, once again, victims of male privilege on biggest stages of all – Olympics and Tour de France

OLIVER BROWN

CHIEF SPORTS WRITER

2 May 2023 • 1:34pm

 

The spectacle of Austin Killips, a biological male, winning the women’s Tour of the Gila is the latest expression of a conspiracy of silence that reaches to the summit of global sport. The prevailing view within cycling is that Killips, who at 27 only took up the sport in 2019 before embarking on hormone replacement therapy, should have been nowhere near the peloton in New Mexico, never mind the podium. And yet it happened because, quite simply, nobody at any level had either the gumption or the inclination to stop it.

Tempting as it might be to lambast the Tour of the Gila for allowing Killips to compete, the organisers’ hands were tied. Their event is sanctioned by USA Cycling, who are in turn answerable to the International Cycling Union (UCI), the sport’s world governing body, who have decreed that transgender riders are eligible to enter women’s races so long as they reduce their testosterone beneath 2.5 nanomoles per litre over a two-year period. It is a ludicrous rule, not least because the one perspective it conspicuously neglects is that of the women who lose out.

Last summer, Marion Clignet, France’s former world champion on both the track and the road, presented a survey to the UCI showing that 92 per cent of female riders were opposed to racing against trans women under any circumstances. Still it was not enough for the majority-male UCI committee, who alighted on testosterone suppression as a convenient fudge. And lo and behold, along comes Killips, who has documented hormone treatment in an online blog entitled “Oestro Junkie”, and who now claims an £8,000 prize for winning in the female category, not to mention a bonus as “Queen of the Mountains”.

Killips’ tilt at Tour and Olympics may be next 

A straight line can be drawn between this race in the wilderness of New Mexico and next summer’s Paris Olympics. For few who have followed Killips’ rise have any expectation that the story ends here. Inga Thompson, a three-time Olympic cyclist, considers Killips the favourite for this month’s Joe Martin Stage Race in Arkansas, from where a tilt could begin for both the Tour de France Femmes and a place on the US team at the 2024 Games.

Surely, you might assume, the authorities will step in before then. Surely, the injustice of young Mexican woman Marcela Prieto finishing second at the Tour of the Gila to Killips, a post-puberty male, is so stark and indefensible that it cannot possibly be repeated, least of all on the Olympic stage. But if you thought the UCI were useless on the trans issue, just wait until you meet their colleagues at the International Olympic Committee.

The suits in Lausanne are so asleep at the wheel that at the height of the controversy involving Laurel Hubbard, the New Zealand weightlifter born male and taking the place of a biological female at the Tokyo Games at the age of 43, Dr Richard Budgett, the IOC’s medical director, said: “Everyone agrees that trans women are women.”

Naturally, a great many women agree nothing of the sort. Almost two years on, the reminder of Budgett’s remark still boils Thompson’s blood. “If you’re willing to lie to me about basic biology,” she says, “then you’re willing to lie to me about anything.” With the IOC so rudderless, the question arises as to how many more prizes and how much more money female athletes have to lose before president Thomas Bach intervenes on their behalf.

‘Sport will move from ‘moment’ to ‘moment’ until enough people respect women’s rights’

Killips’ victory has already been framed as a “Lia Thomas moment” for cycling, mirroring the scandal that erupted when Thomas, born male and ranked 554th in men’s 200-yard freestyle swimming in the US, transferred to the female event and won the national collegiate final. As Ross Tucker, the South African sports scientist who played a pivotal role in persuading World Rugby to ban transgender athletes from female competition, put it: “Thanks to the abdication of its leaders, sport will move from ‘moment’ to ‘moment’ until enough people respect women’s rights. Swimming then, cycling now. The only question is whether cycling realises it this time, or does it need more moments?”

Thompson has witnessed enough spinelessness, and seen herself traduced as a transphobe enough times for daring to speak out, to anticipate any noble change of course. But after four years spent fighting the UCI’s policy, she does detect a shift in the atmosphere, a sense that female cyclists are deeply troubled by the Killips situation but dissuaded by both teams and sponsors from breaking cover. “It’s my understanding that just about all the women are unhappy about this, but are forced to go along and be quiet,” she says.

So far, the implicit assumption of cycling’s supine leaders is that women will just stand by and take it as biological males wrest away the glory in what is supposed to be a protected category. But there is a fightback stirring. The sight of Killips atop that podium in the desert could finally be the cue for sport to accept immutable biological reality, and to stop using women as unconsenting pawns in some shameful game of male privilege.