pongo Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 hour ago, woody2 said: it would only be fair and democratic to wait another 40+ years....... Not according to Farage. Before the referendum he said that if the result was close then there would be a strong case for a second referendum. He was right. Nigel Farage: Narrow Remain win may lead to second referendum - BBC 17 May 2016 Quote There could be unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain wins by a narrow margin on 23 June, UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 1 hour ago, ballaughbiker said: 3? 2015 ge 2016 ref 2017 ge the public have spoken........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 49 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said: There's an amateur civil war a coming if they don't sort this shit soon. I'm convinced there is. been saying the same on the other thread for ages...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 You can't use a GE result to supposedly confirm a referendum outcome, especially if it pre-dates it. General Elections are fought on a myriad of policies, a referendum on one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 30 minutes ago, pongo said: Not according to Farage. Before the referendum he said that if the result was close then there would be a strong case for a second referendum. He was right. Nigel Farage: Narrow Remain win may lead to second referendum - BBC 17 May 2016 they didn't win....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, ballaughbiker said: You can't use a GE result to supposedly confirm a referendum outcome, especially if it pre-dates it. General Elections are fought on a myriad of policies, a referendum on one. what manifestos don't count........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Quote been saying the same on the other thread for ages...... You'll have your gilet jaune already no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballaughbiker Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Quote what manifestos don't count........ Only when you cherry pick one item that suits your mantra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, woody2 said: 2015 ge 2016 ref 2017 ge the public have spoken........ You're being surprisingly simplistic. It's much more nuanced. The 2015 and 2017 general elections were still essentially won by the moderate centre vote. In 2017 just enough of the centre stuck with Mrs May for her to win. In the hope of a sensible soft Brexit. No matter what the manifesto promised. Both parties promised to respect the referendum result - but everyone with a brain knew that they were just saying that because they had to - that it wasn't the whole story. And nobody voted Liberal because they aren't viable. The sensible pragmatic centre vote has been split for years. But it's where elections are won. When Labour and the Tories finally split the political fringes will be quite rightly marginalised for good. The new name for soft Brexit is managed - no deal. It's the same thing whatever you call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 It's a total fuck-up because it's built on a total fuck-up in the first place. A stupid referendum handing over one of the most complex political and economic decisions in this nation's history, to a public who (despite what they say now) didn't even know what they were voting for. How many knew about EFTA and the EEA; Canada ++ or the Norway option; CETA; the Irish backstop; WTO rules; non-tariff barriers; Article 50; the CAP and CFP etc. Even most of the politicians and media commentators still can't quite get their head around it all. I don't agree with a second referendum. Parliament needs to sort it out with a suspension of the Whips and a series of free votes on where we go from here. Brexit or bust is the dumb option to me. Something like May's deal if it can be amended to appease most of the free-market Brexiteers, seems to be the only direction from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freggyragh Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 In 2015 In March 2016 the public voted hugely in favour of naming the new Arctic Survey Vessel ‘Boaty McBoatface’. The renamers, headed up by entitled millionaire professional politician Jo Johnson, refused to accept the people’s vote and presented a crappy compromise - they chose the name they liked; ‘RSS Sir David Attenborough’, and only acknowledged the people’s vote by naming one of it’s remote controlled submersibles Boaty McBoatface. The public just seemed to accept that their betters knew better, and the renamers just assumed that votes could be ignored. There is a culture of bogus ‘consultations’, ‘big conversations’, ‘focus group consensus’ and even ‘votes’ being manipulated to facilitate and justify the actions of an autocracy that thinks it knows best. There has also been a lot of bogus ‘sorry, can’t do that because of EU regs’, to avoid providing what the voters asked for. I think the Brexit vote was the public sticking two fingers up to the patronising and undemocratic elites of the U.K. Whatever Brexit happens, it will be crap, it will diminish Britain and impoverish many. I don’t believe for a minute that it will address the democratic deficit in the U.K. - but I do respect the sentiment. Whilst people feel like this they will vote angrily and irrationally, and the centre ground, sensible politicians will be the losers, and the U.K. will end up with a Corbyn or a David Davis running the place, in which case the U.K. may as well rename itself Boaty McBoatface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 7 hours ago, Freggyragh said: In 2015 In March 2016 the public voted hugely in favour of naming the new Arctic Survey Vessel ‘Boaty McBoatface’. The renamers, headed up by entitled millionaire professional politician Jo Johnson, refused to accept the people’s vote and presented a crappy compromise - they chose the name they liked; ‘RSS Sir David Attenborough’, and only acknowledged the people’s vote by naming one of it’s remote controlled submersibles Boaty McBoatface. The public just seemed to accept that their betters knew better, and the renamers just assumed that votes could be ignored. There is a culture of bogus ‘consultations’, ‘big conversations’, ‘focus group consensus’ and even ‘votes’ being manipulated to facilitate and justify the actions of an autocracy that thinks it knows best. There has also been a lot of bogus ‘sorry, can’t do that because of EU regs’, to avoid providing what the voters asked for. I think the Brexit vote was the public sticking two fingers up to the patronising and undemocratic elites of the U.K. Whatever Brexit happens, it will be crap, it will diminish Britain and impoverish many. I don’t believe for a minute that it will address the democratic deficit in the U.K. - but I do respect the sentiment. Whilst people feel like this they will vote angrily and irrationally, and the centre ground, sensible politicians will be the losers, and the U.K. will end up with a Corbyn or a David Davis running the place, in which case the U.K. may as well rename itself Boaty McBoatface. Don't be silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 14 hours ago, pongo said: You're being surprisingly simplistic. It's much more nuanced. The 2015 and 2017 general elections were still essentially won by the moderate centre vote. In 2017 just enough of the centre stuck with Mrs May for her to win. In the hope of a sensible soft Brexit. No matter what the manifesto promised. Both parties promised to respect the referendum result - but everyone with a brain knew that they were just saying that because they had to - that it wasn't the whole story. And nobody voted Liberal because they aren't viable. The sensible pragmatic centre vote has been split for years. But it's where elections are won. When Labour and the Tories finally split the political fringes will be quite rightly marginalised for good. The new name for soft Brexit is managed - no deal. It's the same thing whatever you call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIchard Britten Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 On 12/21/2018 at 6:09 PM, woolley said: "Facts"? That would be as presented by Project Fear since June 2016 now in overdrive, and a supine negotiation conducted by europhiles? Don't make me show you the real "Project Fear" again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody2 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 3 hours ago, RIchard Britten said: Don't make me show you the real "Project Fear" again... what 500000- 800000 people wouldn't have a job the day after the vote....... that went well....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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