Manximus Aururaneus Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) 51 minutes ago, MrPB said: I’d be interested to know what your maritime experience is. Otherwise it’s just more unsubstantiated opinion. That's a fair question. Member of the Institute of Marine Engineers Member of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers Member of the Institute of Nuclear Engineers Member of Royal Institute of Naval Architects Fellow of Institute of Diagnostic Engineers 22 years military marine Ex Boatyard owner Ex Marina ( Small ) owner Ex Yacht Broker Ex boat surveyor RYA Ocean Yachtmaster Absolutely no claim to any of above since +/- 2003 - retired - overtaken by investment business / super-yacht / commercial property operations and taxation interests only. (Includes 'qualified for and accepted by'). Edited February 3, 2019 by Manximus Aururaneus 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizo Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 And Dillies credentials are, bullshitter. Dilli wins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) Just to clarify, I have at no time said that I believe the Ramsey proposal to be either a good or a bad idea - I have said that a 24 hour, full service marina somewhere on the Island is a good idea. Edited February 3, 2019 by Manximus Aururaneus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 He's got a drinking problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, MrPB said: No I agree it makes sense. Maybe more so with Brexit as maybe that will increase leisure traffic between the UK and Ireland where Ramsey is presumably a good stop off point on either route. Transit traffic is not the earner - static boats (holiday cottages) are. IOM is a 'Super-yacht Registration' base - but you cannot park / service anything bigger than dinghy anywhere on the Island. It's bonkers. Edited February 3, 2019 by Manximus Aururaneus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manximus Aururaneus Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, MrPB said: But isn’t yachting and aviation going to be dead here after Brexit? Looks to me that most only registered here as they were sailing in EU waters and wanted VAT registration that was linked to the UK-EU customs agreement. Surely that’s totally dead moving forward and most will move to register in Cyprus or Malta? That's pretty much my whole point ( even if I haven't actually said so ). IOM has been relying on nefarious schemes (including VAT avoidance - nothing wrong with that) - But, it has wonderful opportunities for real business because of its geographical location but, for whatever reasons, chooses not to do so. What planet are we on when we say to somebody willing to pay £200 a week to park a boat here that they are 'silly'!!!!!!! I'm serious - what planet is that from? The Island has public sector pension deficits to cover - and those same public sector pension recipients are telling people willing to pay £10,000p.a. to park a boat to feck off! What planet? Edited February 3, 2019 by Manximus Aururaneus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 It's been obvious for decades that we do need 24 hour facilities, and MA states the case succinctly. I'm not saying this scheme, but certainly something, somewhere. Revenue going begging. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craggy_steve Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 6 hours ago, MrPB said: But isn’t yachting and aviation going to be dead here after Brexit? Looks to me that most only registered here as they were sailing in EU waters and wanted VAT registration that was linked to the UK-EU customs agreement. Surely that’s totally dead moving forward and most will move to register in Cyprus or Malta? I don't think the IoM Superyacht business will die overnight, the island has built up expertise and services which go beyond VAT, but that would be to miss the point anyway. Boats of 10 metres to 20 metres are not really Superyacht territory, they're either small commercial or mostly owned by the well to do, not the mega-rich. The costs of playing with 50 meter ++ Superyachts are in a totally different league, £millions p.a., and I really don't see Ramsey or any other IoM port becoming the Cannes of the Irish Sea. The type of customer M A is talking about is more likely to be a well-heeled professional who can afford to send his kids to boarding school (such as King Bill's), and to whom the cost of keeping a 15 metre boat for the family is an affordable luxury (and probably cheaper than a cottage in France or villa in Spain). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorik Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 7 hours ago, Manximus Aururaneus said: That's pretty much my whole point ( even if I haven't actually said so ). IOM has been relying on nefarious schemes (including VAT avoidance - nothing wrong with that) - But, it has wonderful opportunities for real business because of its geographical location but, for whatever reasons, chooses not to do so. What planet are we on when we say to somebody willing to pay £200 a week to park a boat here that they are 'silly'!!!!!!! I'm serious - what planet is that from? The Island has public sector pension deficits to cover - and those same public sector pension recipients are telling people willing to pay £10,000p.a. to park a boat to feck off! What planet? I think Dilli belongs to that curious Manx breed that would rather people sent money here but didn’t come near the place. Inward investment doesn’t work that way 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 9 hours ago, MrPB said: I agree about us needing real businesses over ‘schemes’ that’s about the only way forward we can have now with greater moves looking at economic substance. If this is a private development I really have no issue. It won’t happen though would be my guess due to the usual myopic troglodytes. Those holiday lodges up North were quashed pretty quickly by a similar attitude. The issue with a £100m project is that you can end up with something 1/3 built, which then collapses, adding to the whole despair effect. If this goes ahead - and good luck to them, IOMG must ensure it is wholly funded prior to build, and not relying on £50m of property sales to finish it. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quilp Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) Oh buoy. After making waves and on a tide of controversy, land-lubber dilli throws his oar in and surfaces with a load of bilge. The swell of opinion gives a stern warning to those adrift, and not many hands agree with the cut of his jib but keeping an even keel and a steady hand on the tiller is difficult when one is all at sea. Lets hope he's becalmed, doesn't bow his head and sail off into the sunset, taking the idea on board rather than flounce away on a low ebb... Edited February 4, 2019 by quilp Any port in a storm. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 57 minutes ago, Derek Flint said: ....and not relying on £50m of property sales to finish it. Some of the luxury apartments built adjacent to the Park Hotel remain unsold. Ramsey Commissioners recently turned down a developer's request to buy their unsold new-build for social housing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b4mbi Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 12 hours ago, Cypman said: All the 24 hour access marinas around the North Irish Sea are at or near full capacity. The Isle of Man desperately needs one and it would bring huge financial benefits to the community. This new and imaginative proposal seems to be a positive move forward and appears to make financial sense. Hopefully, a positive attitude will be displayed by all !! In what possible way does it make financial sense?!!!! Don't get me wrong, I agree with the sentiment and like the idea, but at a cost of £100m it just won't fly. Simply speaking:- maximus stated £350-£500 per meter annual berthing fees and his yacht 19m - so if we make some VERY generous assumptions that the 400 berth marina would be full all the time, average yacht length 20m (I fully admit I have no clue about such things) and say a price of £425/m being the midpoint 400 berths x 20 meters x £425 = £3.4m p.a. Marina operating costs p.a. ?? financing costs? £100m at 5% ---> £5m ?? return for investors? It comes no-where near to passing even this back of a fag packet calculation!!! And of course that income can only arise when the thing is built, how are the construction costs financed in the 2/3 year construction time?? However, I do stand to be corrected and would love to be proved wrong... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craggy_steve Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, b4mbi said: In what possible way does it make financial sense?!!!! Don't get me wrong, I agree with the sentiment and like the idea, but at a cost of £100m it just won't fly. Simply speaking:- maximus stated £350-£500 per meter annual berthing fees and his yacht 19m - so if we make some VERY generous assumptions that the 400 berth marina would be full all the time, average yacht length 20m (I fully admit I have no clue about such things) and say a price of £425/m being the midpoint 400 berths x 20 meters x £425 = £3.4m p.a. Marina operating costs p.a. ?? financing costs? £100m at 5% ---> £5m ?? return for investors? It comes no-where near to passing even this back of a fag packet calculation!!! And of course that income can only arise when the thing is built, how are the construction costs financed in the 2/3 year construction time?? However, I do stand to be corrected and would love to be proved wrong... It's maybe £50M tops for the marina side to fund because half the development would be residential property which would be sold / leased. Rental of the berths is merely the start, you then supply shore power, boat security & mooring checks as a service, sailing lessons, chandlery, boat maintenance & servicing, sailing club bar & restaurant, yacht brokerage etc. Basically a little goldmine for extracting dosh from well-heeled boaty people for whom you either provide services or let out on-site premises so that others can provide services. Dunno any of the detail of the Ramsey proposal, but in any private sector marina the berth rental is merely the tip of the iceberg, so I think you can assume the marina element of the proposal would have half the financing costs and double the income potential at worst case (and if not it wouldn't be worth doing). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, b4mbi said: In what possible way does it make financial sense?!!!! Don't get me wrong, I agree with the sentiment and like the idea, but at a cost of £100m it just won't fly. Simply speaking:- maximus stated £350-£500 per meter annual berthing fees and his yacht 19m - so if we make some VERY generous assumptions that the 400 berth marina would be full all the time, average yacht length 20m (I fully admit I have no clue about such things) and say a price of £425/m being the midpoint 400 berths x 20 meters x £425 = £3.4m p.a. Marina operating costs p.a. ?? financing costs? £100m at 5% ---> £5m ?? return for investors? It comes no-where near to passing even this back of a fag packet calculation!!! And of course that income can only arise when the thing is built, how are the construction costs financed in the 2/3 year construction time?? However, I do stand to be corrected and would love to be proved wrong... Have you looked at the proposal. the £100 million includes housing, apartments, shops and restaurants. The apartments and houses will be sold off, recouping a substantial sum 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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