Ramsey Marina

[Ramseyboi]

1 hour ago, GD4ELI said:

Sadly very few people realise this.

What makes you say that?

This is a widely held belief of pretty much anyone you speak to about the proposed Marina either in Ramsey or anywhere else on the island.

The locals you regularly speak to about such matters must be int he minority?  Are you in the Traf, the Plough, The Swan or Parliament Street in general very often to be able to pass such comment?

[b4mbi]

Time for them to put up or shut up in my opinion.

Make a planning application. 

All the necessary reports, surveys, drawings for that would likely run into hundreds of thousands of pounds.

 

[GD4ELI]

30 minutes ago, Ramseyboi said:

What makes you say that?

This is a widely held belief of pretty much anyone you speak to about the proposed Marina either in Ramsey or anywhere else on the island.

The locals you regularly speak to about such matters must be int he minority?  Are you in the Traf, the Plough, The Swan or Parliament Street in general very often to be able to pass such comment?

There are hundreds of folk on the Facebook groups who just don't realise. Instead they post pictures of seaweed.

I haven't been in a Ramsey pub in ~45 years, last visit was to the Mitre.

[Non-Believer]

27 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

I’m not sure there is much money there. They’d have to sell them to off island people would be my guess. Nobody who is Manx is going to be mental enough to spend £350K on a yuppie apartment in Ramsey. 

A serving Commissioner who has had privy to some figures told me for the scheme to stack up, the selling prices would have to be three times that. A town MHK says that central Govt (DOI) have yet to see any viable figures as well.

[CallMeCurious]

6 hours ago, 2112 said:

You are right and what’s more I am surprised by the silence of the eco warriors led by chief woke warrior Daffy. The area concerned I’m sure will be home of wildlife, and we are told is an area of outstanding beauty. As these absolute hypocritical and  quite frankly so called Enviromental warriors, have such a eco zeal, this idea shouldn’t even get any traction.  The developers whos idea it is needs to be told in no uncertain terms that planning permission will never be granted no matter how much money it is projected to bring to the local economy. 
 

If this idea gets of the ground then next will be a cruise liner pontoon off the Battery Pier by Douglas Harbour. 

Their own website says the developer needs the properties built to finance the marina and the wonderful fake beach and public park etc. My prediction is they'd reclaim enough to build on, having shut the beach down for several years, make a token attempt at the public area and beach. Then having made the profit for the investors and watched the cost and timeframe increase far beyond original estmates would cite some BS excuse, lack of finance and walk away.

Or hold out the cap to tax/rate payers or insist only by cutting down the amenities and building more apartments will it be finished. Mount Murray springs to mind.

Ramsey would then be left to pick up the peices and the jobs and dreams would evaporate. And even if it went miraclously to plan, who is going to pay for the maintenance of the public areas. Looking after an outdoor pool for instance. 

I do not resent anyone investing and profit is the reward for risk but here the developer is taking a unique area and pushing the risk onto Ramsey. Because at any stage the developer can walk away and leave an unfinished project.

Considering the lack of progress on brownfield sites like Lord Street Bus Station (centre of the biggest town on the island with a marina and pedestrian friendly quayside) or Summerland site (at a heritage transport hub and the end of a recently refurbished promenade). What devloper in their right mind would take on a hlaf-finished marina project with public expectations that they'd honour the original plans for public amenities?

 

 

[Langweilig]

A very interesting plan for "Royal" Ramsey, especially this in relation to the Queen's Pier - "Transition area to allow direct access to the Victorian Pier".  I take it that means the pier will be "refurbished" for future use at some stage?

[Ramseyboi]

46 minutes ago, b4mbi said:

Time for them to put up or shut up in my opinion.

Make a planning application. 

All the necessary reports, surveys, drawings for that would likely run into hundreds of thousands of pounds.

 

They need the area to be zoned for development first, which is in progress.

[CallMeCurious]

27 minutes ago, Ramseyboi said:

They need the area to be zoned for development first, which is in progress.

If they get approval they should be paying rent for the beach until they have the rates in place from the development. Put it towards the costs of disruption of a 5 year building site on surrounding area and any costs incurred in ensuring they follow through on the grandiose promises for public amenities.

Use the first payments of said rent to get an independent assesment of the environmental impact and monitor it throughout the works. Not just the marine environment either but noise pollution and dust/debris etc. 

If all goes well then there will be a sinking fund left at the end (pun intended) to properly maintain the public amenities and any unforeseen long term issues. Drastically altering the tidal and current flows around the remaining beach and queens pier might have detrimental long term effects. Or the seawater pool could be a pain to maintain.

My favourite line on RM website was;

  A full EIA study will confirm these net benefits in the coming months

A literal example of confirmation bias and why there needs to be an independent study commsioned by governmwent and paid for by the developer before any permission is given and at every stage of the project when there is the inevitable changes, they should be also verified independently.

Where is the Green Party, still in Glasgow?

 

[hissingsid]

I think most people are of the opinion it will never happen, pie in the sky scenario.   If this scheme does take off there should be great care taken to ensure there are sufficient funds to complete, the last thing needed is a half finished abandonment that will have to be sorted out by the Government and I can really see this as a possibility.    The costing of this scheme will no doubt be out of date now as the price of materials have soared in the last twelve months and labour costs will have escalated due to shortages.

[2112]

32 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

I think most people are of the opinion it will never happen, pie in the sky scenario.   If this scheme does take off there should be great care taken to ensure there are sufficient funds to complete, the last thing needed is a half finished abandonment that will have to be sorted out by the Government and I can really see this as a possibility.    The costing of this scheme will no doubt be out of date now as the price of materials have soared in the last twelve months and labour costs will have escalated due to shortages.

Therein lies the rub. Sufficient funds? If it’s a complete turkey, public funds are bound to be thrown in. I’m of the opinion that public funds will be squandered anyway on this project, directly or indirectly. 

[CallMeCurious]

2 hours ago, 2112 said:

Therein lies the rub. Sufficient funds? If it’s a complete turkey, public funds are bound to be thrown in. I’m of the opinion that public funds will be squandered anyway on this project, directly or indirectly. 

Much like other developers who build and profit from mass builds and then expect the public purse to pay for the obvious and badly needed amenities to go with them.

You can tell that no-one involved in the scheme lives anywhere near the site or they'd not have moved the residential pocket right next to Mezeron unless they think the sound of a concrete pump at 7am and the roar of HGV's is part of the maritime ambience.

The pretty trees will last maybe a year in wind driven salt spray. I see little in the way of parking for the hundreds if not thousands of visitors or even the 300-400 employees.

Much like other developers this is a 'lets see what we can get away with' scheme which will bear no resemblance to the final result. Over promise and under deliver.  

Driving past Ballasalla legoland the other day and was amused to see garage doors and wondered how many would ever have a vehicle through them? Think of the logic there. We have a very limited space on which to build a habitable space but we'll take some of it, turn it into a windowless room that you might be able to fit a smart car in. Oh and we have to put the EV point outside as your runabout will be kept otuside cuz you can't be arsed with the faff of using the garage.

And hence you'll see cars and vans parked on pavements everywhere in these new developments because it ticked a box for planners on 'availble spaces' for parking.   

[2112]

Having just seen this weeks Courier and it’s ‘cheap’ wrap around pleading it’s case, for a Marina, and more.

Obviously trying the PR route. Do they think that IOMG or we the Taxpayers are going to hand over land to a developer, on the supposed promise of 200-300 jobs? There is a major shortage of workers and materials. I seriously think that the island will end up poorer if this scheme materialises. 
 

I did notice the developers, promising a new lifeboat station. Hardly a deal breaker, you would have thought if you really want it badly, perhaps funding a new top of the range lifeboat and launching station. 
 

So far Hooperman and Allinson have remained silent. 

[CallMeCurious]

5 minutes ago, 2112 said:

Having just seen this weeks Courier and it’s ‘cheap’ wrap around pleading it’s case, for a Marina, and more.

Obviously trying the PR route. Do they think that IOMG or we the Taxpayers are going to hand over land to a developer, on the supposed promise of 200-300 jobs? There is a major shortage of workers and materials. I seriously think that the island will end up poorer if this scheme materialises. 
 

I did notice the developers, promising a new lifeboat station. Hardly a deal breaker, you would have thought if you really want it badly, perhaps funding a new top of the range lifeboat and launching station. 
 

So far Hooperman and Allinson have remained silent. 

Wonder what they'll do with the existing lifeboat station they've just extended and refurbished at no doubt great expense. 

 

[2112]

11 minutes ago, CallMeCurious said:

Wonder what they'll do with the existing lifeboat station they've just extended and refurbished at no doubt great expense. 

 

Build Apartments? …………. Satire!

Im surprised that the developers haven’t been hell for leather, with mass donations to island charities, especially like RDCH and Ramsey Courthouse? Perhaps they think the island is a soft touch and will fall for the PR trick. 
 

Also noticeable is the silence of Daffy. Unless she’s fence sitting. The Isle of Man seems to be experts at big grandiose multi million pound schemes, which always involves more take than give. Except they never get off the ground, or sand in this case. The taxpayer doesn’t do well out of it either. 

Edited November 13, 2021 by 2112

[McCallig]

The last time I read such hype for a 'transformational' project was Callow's Yard in Castletown.

And look how well that one turned out.