Numbnuts Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) Thanks for the appreciation that what I've posted is correct .It's hard to follow as often seems left field but I'll never post anything without feeling it's correct . I also mentioned above about the walkway getting dug up . I did get the area wrong as tentative news was it was lock Prom but however principle is the same . Yes originally it wasn't getting dug up but because of Cockups and no plans for infrastructure pipes they have had to put them on queens Prom walkway . Someone else said it's QS but I'm sure it's not .. DOI and it's experts have still not produced plans for lots of the works up to and including what's going on now . There whinging it day to day. It's the DOI managers totally at fault and any consultants involved. The Job was started without planning to try and get it started and it's now ended up as a complete mess and sadly getting worse . They are now today starting to grind down the tracks as it's thought that might stop the excessive noise !! It's totally clear that DOI are completely out of there depth and senior staff have massively been found to not have the skill set of experience to carry out this job. They now in at a complete hole as they have gone down a particular route which is starting to bite there ass big time . The plan was to dig up in front of hotels etc NEXT summer ! Clearly without a thought to hoteliers . This has now been stopped and debunked so when can they do it as realistically the only correct time is in winter months . This winter is history due to works already ongoing ..Massive issue . Also a very good source confirms to me when asked how far along is the job !?? Around 20% I was told ..even if it's a little further on that would indicate a 2 year job going to take at the best upwards of 31/2 years till finished. Penalty clauses have been removed remember and red concrete to be renewed . Have some updates in the NSC pool too but another day ! Edited November 19, 2019 by Numbnuts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, english zloty said: I think the Contractors have. They just need instruction and plans to function. And they have neither. That was clear from day one when two subbies randomly started breaking out concrete Islands only to go to the north end of the prom and work there. Agree totally..it's standard work just on a bigger scale. Without input ,plans and a schedule of work any contacter would struggle. Hence the removal of penalties. It's so not the contractors fault . DOI , Buck stops there . Ohh and I'm not discounting are esteemed leader as when all said and done he appoints ministers to oversee departments . Said it earlier. Job needs to stop from now till early New Year and everyone involved to be called to a crisis meeting and sort the many many issues out and start afresh with ideally DOI no where near the job . Edited November 19, 2019 by Numbnuts 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxdaleliberationfront Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Thanks for the updates Numbnuts. I had a source who was involved with the Promenade work, but quit late in the summer due to the stress of dealing with the sheer incompetence of the DOI and Government in general - his words were along the lines of good money to be had but not worth the stress. Essentially he said the DOI Overlords would show up one morning with some bits of paper and ask for X, Y, and Z to be done according to their plans. They would then come back in the following days and ask why it had been done that way and then demand that X, Y, and Z be redone in a different way. They really should just abandon the trams for now. Several people have commented that from a civil engineering / town planning point of view the tram tracks should be the very last thing to be done so that all the groundwork and foundations for the highway, sewers and drains could be done before the final road surface / rails are put down. The whole thing is out of control and will end up being a very, very expensive mistake. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 If the trams were abandoned, and a full fresh surface job done, I reckon a big contractor would be finished early in new year. I have see a big bypass of a French town started and finished in a long weekend. The tramlines could be retrofitted, I am fairly sure that's what happened in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, NoTail said: If the trams were abandoned, and a full fresh surface job done, I reckon a big contractor would be finished early in new year. I have see a big bypass of a French town started and finished in a long weekend. The tramlines could be retrofitted, I am fairly sure that's what happened in the first place. In Zurich the Swiss built the tramlines into position first, then put everything in around them. They know what they are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc.fixit Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 After the sub structure and services presumably? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 15 minutes ago, GD4ELI said: In Zurich the Swiss built the tramlines into position first, then put everything in around them. They know what they are doing. This might work for them but what's clear without plans for the whole job nothing can work. This job should have been straight forward with awareness for unknowns turning up . Clearly if all info was available from day one the sensible and common sense approach with least disruption would have been to start at one end on one side and work your way along with services etc and gangs going along behind doing the necessary other works and so on . You could have started at the other end with the same approach if enough expertise was available. Then when half was finished open up and the same on the other side . Perhaps due to hotel seasons you'd have to work around summer season etc but what's happening now you'd never do in the real world ..Clearly DOI are not in it ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 (edited) Ohh as a footnote ..I like the trams and glad there kept. Understand why others don't though. But it's not the tram tracks that's the problem it's the order they have been laid in ..going down the middle of the road with works was never a good idea as was always going to be problematic . Longworth and powers that be have a lot to answer for in this regard . Edited November 19, 2019 by Numbnuts 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Whoever mentioned the QS work probably has a point. Looks like cheapest shitest materials specified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 22 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said: Whoever mentioned the QS work probably has a point. Looks like cheapest shitest materials specified. QS works from a previous bill of quanties prepared for the client.. in this case IOM govt DOI . Not much specific materials used up to now apart from ultilities pipes ,fittings etc . Reconstituted hardcore which makes good sense . Not sure what materials your meaning . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 58 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said: Whoever mentioned the QS work probably has a point. Looks like cheapest shitest materials specified. That was me But it's not just about materials these days, it's slso about process. Cutting corners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 There's been enough warning over what would happen with other DOI projects in recent years. This was the Big One. And they didn't disappoint. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxdaleliberationfront Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Big HQ has called a crisis meeting later this week to bang heads together. He is apparently most displeased! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 9 hours ago, Numbnuts said: Agree totally..it's standard work just on a bigger scale. Without input ,plans and a schedule of work any contacter would struggle. Hence the removal of penalties. It's so not the contractors fault . DOI , Buck stops there . Ohh and I'm not discounting are esteemed leader as when all said and done he appoints ministers to oversee departments . Said it earlier. Job needs to stop from now till early New Year and everyone involved to be called to a crisis meeting and sort the many many issues out and start afresh with ideally DOI no where near the job . And a hold on the work should also answer the question: what is this all for? After all we were assured that the whole Prom was full of voids and about to collapse into the sea. Something for which little evidence has since been produced. Meanwhile it appears that the DoI had very little record of where services were or even the work they had done themselves in recent times. Remember this is a project that had been delayed a number of times, so there is no excuse for planning not having been done in advance. And yet when things started, they fell apart almost straight away - it's not that they don't know what to do, they don't even know that they should be doing it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) Those who predicted this would be a a cluster of epic proportions were clearly correct, as were those who predicted the Liverpool Terminal would rise exponentially in cost ! Why is it the man in the street with a smidgeon of common sense can foresee these things happening but our elected muppets press on regardless whilst dwindling public money goes up in smoke ! How is it our elected trumpet that we are having a Liverpool terminal at no cost to the public purse, but which will become I am led to believe north of 50 million ! and they wonder why people don't believe a word they say ! what a bunch of useless amateurs! Edited November 20, 2019 by asitis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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