Promenade - Megathread

[paswt]

3 hours ago, Beelzebub3 said:

You must have worked at the DOI!

No , worked for a few London local authorities and way back started out  "on the tools".

One London council carried out an "enveloping scheme" within a "Housing  Action area" whereby they employed trades to make the external envelope of owner occupied properties wind and weather proof ( refurbing roofs/external brickwork windows and doors etc).

The clerk of works was a detestable little man universally despised by all the independent tradesmen (with good reason) and when he passed work as satisfactory they got  paid.

Unfortunately for him his knowledge of building was at best skimpy and long story short he passed, among other things , the installation of an external door where the frame was installed upside down and a first floor double hung sliding sash window was installed the wrong way round ( in order to unlock/open/close the window needed a ladder placed against the rear main house wall . It became a competition among the 'lads' to see who could get away with the most outrageous  lash up . 

The "mistakes(?)" were rectified and eventually the CoW was moved sideways/promoted , if he'd been in the private sector I would venture to suggest that he would have been sacked.

Hence I'm not   surprised with what is happening on this island , particularly with the prom and the public and heritage transport ................. 

just saying

. 

 

[Two-lane]

2 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

DOI will chew him up, make a scapegoat out of him and toss him back to the electorate who will make a decision on "his failings". As the DOI have with so many before.

What authority does a minister have? The politicians make decisions about what should be done e.g. fix the prom. But what authority do they have to *make* things happen?

Next time around, the electorate has the chance to fire a few MKHs. (Maybe  the electorate should also  get the opportunity to fire a few civil servants). But in the meantime, who has the absolute authority to make heads roll if the job is not completed on time?

[Numbnuts]

3 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

What authority does a minister have? The politicians make decisions about what should be done e.g. fix the prom. But what authority do they have to *make* things happen?

Next time around, the electorate has the chance to fire a few MKHs. (Maybe  the electorate should also  get the opportunity to fire a few civil servants). But in the meantime, who has the absolute authority to make heads roll if the job is not completed on time?

Civil Servants are bullet proof . You must know that . If managment were working in the private sector they would have been long gone by now. Your right regarding ministers though especially if they know nothing about the subject in hand . Quayle and Chief Secretary though should have pulled DOI long ago, stopped the prom works and made DOI come back with the plans for works and a timescale they had to stick too. Also Auldyn should have never been awarded the job without agreeing to timescale and availabilty of workers . My guess though and has been mentioned to me is that DOI didnt have detailed plans ready for the works hence the delays and jumping around of works .

[Non-Believer]

18 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

What authority does a minister have? The politicians make decisions about what should be done e.g. fix the prom. But what authority do they have to *make* things happen?

Next time around, the electorate has the chance to fire a few MKHs. (Maybe  the electorate should also  get the opportunity to fire a few civil servants). But in the meantime, who has the absolute authority to make heads roll if the job is not completed on time?

The authority comes from the electorate in electing a representative via the democratic process. Well, that's the theory. And if those individuals don't carry out the electorate's wishes and/or perform then come election time the electorate will have its say and remove/elect new. That is democratic accountability.

As opposed to the DOI mandarins who are subject to no such process. Seemingly they cannot be disciplined for failings nor fired, even for instances of gross negligence.

Consider the number of DOI failings over the past 5 years which have had to be exposed via FOI (and also consider that if FOI hadn't been invoked then those failings would have remained tucked safely away); Tram brake neglect, failure to act on multiple reports on the Laxey bridge now, expenditure on projects, what's going on with the Prom, Cabbages etc etc. The list goes on and on. Apart from any MHKs paying the electoral price, who else has been held accountable? Nobody except the taxpayer.

I honestly believe that it's getting to the stage that it will only be a multiple fatality event that will shock people into demanding change. We nearly had it with the runaway tram. There could have been kids on that Laxey bus. Lucky escapes to date.

It shouldn't be like this.

[Barlow]

With very few exceptions:

• During election time, on the doorstep, the candidates say they will represent you and look after your interests.
• As soon as they are elected they look after themselves and snuggle in with the civil servants.

A cynical view I realize but one I have formed over quite a few elections

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

55 minutes ago, Barlow said:

With very few exceptions:

• During election time, on the doorstep, the candidates say they will represent you and look after your interests.
• As soon as they are elected they look after themselves and snuggle in with the civil servants.

A cynical view I realize but one I have formed over quite a few elections

Why not stand then and change it?

[slinkydevil]

9 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

 

Here we put their faces on swimsuits and give them funny names and say what jolly good chaps they all are. 
 

 

Those advertising invoices need to be paid.

[Two-lane]

27 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

The Laxey flood of last year was another.

There was a public meeting in Laxey Pavilion, sometime after the event. There was a clear dividing line drawn across the front of the room. On the far side of the line was a group of men wearing suits and with very smug expressions on their faces. On the other side of the line were the poor sods affected by the flood - and a few interested observers, like me.

Allinson was there. Not only was he metaphorically with the men in suits, he was physically sitting with them. He had not the slightest intent at pointing his finger at anyone. He made a near-endless speech in which he said nothing more than he was sorry, and that he would get the trees taken out of the river. He does not seem competent to understand - or more likely doesn't care - that the trees in the river are merely a symptom of the problem, and are not the problem itself.

I don't know what happened after his speech. It was clear nothing was significant going to happen, so I left.

I am severely pissed off at Allinson, because I hoped he would have both common sense and a sense of morality. I was wrong in both cases.

 

[Barlow]

1 hour ago, The Dog's Dangly Bits said:

Why not stand then and change it?

That is such a crass reply. Because that is not the answer is it.

Is there some sort of new rule that you're not allowed to criticize the system unless you stand and win? That is what you are in effect advocating by your reply. You do see that, don't you.

 

[Beelzebub3]

12 hours ago, Two-lane said:

What authority does a minister have? The politicians make decisions about what should be done e.g. fix the prom. But what authority do they have to *make* things happen?

Next time around, the electorate has the chance to fire a few MKHs. (Maybe  the electorate should also  get the opportunity to fire a few civil servants). But in the meantime, who has the absolute authority to make heads roll if the job is not completed on time?

MHKs are only the puppets for the CS, they are the "go between" the public and CS/PS and can and will try and make changes, but only if the CS/PS want it to happen. They are only advisors with no real expertise on what they are responsible over, the CS/PS are supposed to have the "know how" and knowledge to carry out their respectful roles, although not sure whether NB and JR have any knowledge of large infrastructure projects such as Douglas Promenade which is clearly evident.

[The Dog's Dangly Bits]

8 hours ago, Barlow said:

That is such a crass reply. Because that is not the answer is it.

Is there some sort of new rule that you're not allowed to criticize the system unless you stand and win? That is what you are in effect advocating by your reply. You do see that, don't you.

 

Who said you couldn't criticise?

I'm simply saying this - what are you doing about it?

If you said " and I've stood for election to try and change this" or " so I no longer vote based on my experiences" then it sort of mitigates your point.

 

[Andy Onchan]

Judging by the next 10 days weather report there'll be nowt of any substance going on down there. Whoever thought they'd have it all done by next March should be put out in the long wet grass.

[Numbnuts]

33 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Judging by the next 10 days weather report there'll be nowt of any substance going on down there. Whoever thought they'd have it all done by next March should be put out in the long wet grass.

But its not really wet and windy in the winter here is it !!! They had better not try and blame the weather for delays !!! 

[Barlow]

3 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

Judging by the next 10 days weather report there'll be nowt of any substance going on down there. Whoever thought they'd have it all done by next March should be put out in the long wet grass.

 

2 hours ago, Numbnuts said:

But its not really wet and windy in the winter here is it !!! They had better not try and blame the weather for delays !!! 

Yep, looks like the perfect excuse: unprecedented poor weather.

I can hear Tim "not nice but dim" Baker reeling that excuse out already. After the contractor has fed it to him of course.

[ellanvannin2010]

The tram/road crossing seems to have altered from the planning permission granted at Clarence Terrace/ The Esplanade.

The published plans show it as a single tram track crossing the southbound carriageway from the centre of the road to the side. What is actually being put in is a double track crossing. Not found any mention of this in any of the minutes or on the planning website.

A different rail section is being used as well, the crossing rails are a deeper section than used on the rest of the promenade so far.