bonatti Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Annoymouse said: Undertaking you’ve got to be careful of the tram stopping/passengers disembarking, quite a few narrow points were there isn’t much clearance, certainly not the doors width you are supposed to allow parked vehicles. Its crazy to think that 20 odd million pound later, and in a world of rigorously enforced H&S, that we are still going to have tram passengers having to alight directly onto a busy main road. Madness. Hypothetical i know, but I wonder if the Victorians would have run them down the centre of a busy main road if they had similar levels of traffic back then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoymouse Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 16 minutes ago, bonatti said: Its crazy to think that 20 odd million pound later, and in a world of rigorously enforced H&S, that we are still going to have tram passengers having to alight directly onto a busy main road. Madness. Unsure what they’re officially called but the conductor/signaller who walks along the side of the tram whilst it’s still in motion is probably the biggest H&S issue, but if no one has slipped and fell off in 100 years then I guess it’s not considered an issue, perhaps the trams could be retrofitted with some sort stop barrier line you see on American buses. Victorians built things to last, I think they’d probably try to modify what they already have than try to completely reinvent the wheel, I certainly don’t think they’d still be using horses any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonatti Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 But think how much safer they could have been, if they had been moved to side of road. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryFuchwit Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, bonatti said: But think how much safer they could have been, if they had been moved to side of road. Not much safer at all. Given it isnt dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanShimmin Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, TerryFuchwit said: Not much safer at all. Given it isnt dangerous. Until someone is injured/killed/other Does the shitty tram even need to be stopping all over the prom? If the lard arse tourists are so desperate to be dragged along by a horse then they can make the effort and walk to either end of the Prom. Edited July 12, 2021 by AlanShimmin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonatti Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 21 minutes ago, TerryFuchwit said: Not much safer at all. Given it isnt dangerous. But certainly a lot more sensible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 36 minutes ago, bonatti said: But think how much safer they could have been, if they had been moved to side of road. I'm not sure that's true. There have been quite a lot of accidents, some serious, with the electric trams which travel on tracks either completely separated or running to one side. Not many with the horse trams though. To some extent they exemplified what the DoI think they are introducing - the use of shared space and how it forced drivers and pedestrians to be more careful and considerate of other users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryFuchwit Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 59 minutes ago, AlanShimmin said: Until someone is injured/killed/other Does the shitty tram even need to be stopping all over the prom? If the lard arse tourists are so desperate to be dragged along by a horse then they can make the effort and walk to either end of the Prom. What a bizarre thought process. Unsurprisingly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 5 hours ago, TerryFuchwit said: And probably rightly so. The future is getting traffic off the prom and people out of cars in general. It's completely logical. They just also need to ramp up parking charges and increase public transport options. As each day goes by Mann is getting less and less attractive as a place to reside. All sense has gone out of the window when it comes to infrastructure planning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanShimmin Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: As each day goes by Mann is getting less and less attractive as a place to reside. All sense has gone out of the window when it comes to infrastructure planning. Spot on. Actually planning to have an efficient road network alongside public transport is the solution. But they just seem content to clog up the roads even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 Just now, AlanShimmin said: Spot on. Actually planning to have an efficient road network alongside public transport is the solution. But they just seem content to clog up the roads even more. They/we can't look after what we already have.... so what's going to happen when the areas covered by the blocks need taking up because a sewer is blocked or a gas line needs upgrading/replacing? The whole block area will have to be ripped up and relaid because relaying only the part that has to be ripped out won't go back down properly. The person/people who designed this are absolutely fucking bonkers. Zero forethought whatsoever. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellanvannin2010 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: They/we can't look after what we already have.... so what's going to happen when the areas covered by the blocks need taking up because a sewer is blocked or a gas line needs upgrading/replacing? The whole block area will have to be ripped up and relaid because relaying only the part that has to be ripped out won't go back down properly. The person/people who designed this are absolutely fucking bonkers. Zero forethought whatsoever. Dunning Kruger effect 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanShimmin Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: They/we can't look after what we already have.... so what's going to happen when the areas covered by the blocks need taking up because a sewer is blocked or a gas line needs upgrading/replacing? The whole block area will have to be ripped up and relaid because relaying only the part that has to be ripped out won't go back down properly. The person/people who designed this are absolutely fucking bonkers. Zero forethought whatsoever. It will just be tarmac or concrete. On the land side of Loch Prom there are a couple of blocks missing already as they've replaced various bits. It will look shit but that's what will happen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 28 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said: The person/people who designed this are absolutely fucking bonkers. Zero forethought whatsoever. The relevant word here is crayonista, which Urban Dictionary, in one of its politer definitions calls: One who performs strategic transport planning with a box of coloured crayons/pens, using them to draw lines on a map, without thinking through the implications. [eg] "He thought of a way of linking two train lines together without any thought of how it could be achieved. He is such a Crayonista" Actually using crayons isn't a requirement. It's more the attitude that transport changes can be planned on what will look good on a map or pretty in a drawing, without bothering to think how it can be implemented practically or operated practically or whether it is actually needed or how much it will cost. It's worth saying that such people are despised, not just by transport professionals, but by 'serious' amateurs - the sort of people who run vintage railways or study the details of how transport works. For both groups designing and getting things to work is part of the joy of what they do. For crayonistas the whole point is their Grand Plan and tiresome details can be left to later. What has happened in the Isle of Man is that the crayonistas are running the show. Longworth's experience is with buses not trains, Robinson seems to have little to do with roads or transport (his job before was running the incinerator), Black had no relevant experience at all. So whatever madcap schemes they come up with are subject to no scrutiny, except possibly if they will look well in a press release and whether it will provide enough work for the favoured contractors. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Andy Onchan said: They/we can't look after what we already have.... so what's going to happen when the areas covered by the blocks need taking up because a sewer is blocked or a gas line needs upgrading/replacing? The whole block area will have to be ripped up and relaid because relaying only the part that has to be ripped out won't go back down properly. The person/people who designed this are absolutely fucking bonkers. Zero forethought whatsoever. You are totally correct and whats more all the different products used in the different designs and inaginative 'concepts' make it even harder to repair/replace. No thought given to 5 years plus down the road , excuse the pun, and how to maintain the aesthetics. Some will say its not going to last that long and looking at the standard of the works they could be right . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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