Promenade - Megathread

[Nellie]

8 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

 

 

8 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

This is funny. So pedestrians and vehicles have equal priority on the roundels despite pedestrians being an awful lot more vulnerable than vehicle drivers. Can’t see how that works in practice if someone feels they can manage their own priority with a 10 tonne truck. There’s only one of them going to come off worse. 

https://gef.im/2021/11/16/pedestrians-and-vehicles-have-equal-priority-on-roundels/

I’m pretty sure the Highway Code says that pedestrians always have the right of way on the road. It’s a fairly simple principle that makes sure you can’t just knock someone down for being in your way.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Nellie

[Nellie]

3 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

But here they don’t have right of way. Which was my entire point.

Exactly. So JPW’s explanation appears to contravene the Highway Code. 

[Numbnuts]

So allegedly we could all go down to the roundels and randomly walk straight across not giving a toss about anything , apart from maybe a small matter of our life .! Shared space and all that 

[emesde]

As far as I know there is no such thing as "right of way" in any motoring situation. 

There may be degrees of priority, a rather different concept as no one is ever given a total right in any situation. 

It would be great if everyone was sensible in negotiating these junctions but so many people are just plain stupid. Twice this week I have been driving out of Douglas and the car in front of me has done a u turn using the roundells as a kind of roundabout. In both cases they kept to the very left of the road all the way round to end up doing a u turn back into town. I'm sure they thought they were good drivers. I also saw the same thing happen in front of a bus when I was walking on the prom at the Broadway junction. 

It really needs a definitive description of just what this sort of junction means and not for D.O I and govt spokesmen to all give their varying views on what they have created and often wrongly how it should be negotiated. 

[Happier diner]

25 minutes ago, offshoremanxman said:

But here they don’t have right of way. Which was my entire point.

Yes they do. They always do in every circumstances. It could never be right for a pedestrian to not have right of way. If there is a pedestrian on the road you should give way to them.

[Happier diner]

6 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

So allegedly we could all go down to the roundels and randomly walk straight across not giving a toss about anything , apart from maybe a small matter of our life .! Shared space and all that 

Randomly walking onto roundels is not the same as having right of way. However if you encountered a pedestrian in front of you you would have to stop or go around them and let them have the right to get out of the way. 

[emesde]

5 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

So allegedly we could all go down to the roundels and randomly walk straight across not giving a toss about anything , apart from maybe a small matter of our life .! Shared space and all that 

I'm sure you realise that isn't what is being said. In fact the roundels are not for walking on, hence the pedestrian crossings at each exit. 

However so many people who should know better  give their totally confused views as if they knew what they were talking about. I guess it will be left to the police to again get them out of the mess by explaining what is expected from all road users. Let's hope the definitive rules can be added to the manx highway code which is now many years out af date again. 

[Non-Believer]

For many years we have had, and been taught to observe, a regulated traffic environment. Those legal regulations and their physical manifestations in markings and layouts have been arrived at via experience and are designed to allow all classes of road users to navigate in a modicum of priorities, order and safety.

Now somebody has decided to dispense with these regulations and change (and expect to be adopted) overnight the arrangements and culture that have been taught and ingrained.

Why?

[WTF]

just turn the roundels into real roundabouts and stop fucking around DOI tossers, problem solved as to who has right of way and when ( on paper ) and no chance of a mums and tots picnic in the middle of a roundel TT week.

[Roger Mexico]

3 hours ago, emesde said:

I'm sure you realise that isn't what is being said. In fact the roundels are not for walking on, hence the pedestrian crossings at each exit. 

But if it's shared space, they are for walking on just as much as they are for driving on.  That's what it means.

[emesde]

8 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

But if it's shared space, they are for walking on just as much as they are for driving on.  That's what it means.

But surely this is an unmarked road junction not a shared space area. 

This junction doesn't have the dropped kerbs and other requirements to make this shared space. Hence crossing points for pedestrians are incorporated in the design. Just imagine the chaos if groups of pedestrians mingled freely across the roundels during the major commuter traffic. Even the DOI couldn't think that was a good idea,could they?? 🤪 

That would be as sensible as having public getting on and off trams in the middle of the road. 

🙄. Yes maybe it is shared space after all😊

Edited November 17, 2021 by emesde
Adding last paragraph

[Andy Onchan]

44 minutes ago, emesde said:

But surely this is an unmarked road junction not a shared space area. 

This junction doesn't have the dropped kerbs and other requirements to make this shared space. Hence crossing points for pedestrians are incorporated in the design. Just imagine the chaos if groups of pedestrians mingled freely across the roundels during the major commuter traffic. Even the DOI couldn't think that was a good idea,could they?? 🤪 

If it was unmarked there'd be no lines on the road and no pedestrian crossings. It's anything but unmarked. If it looks like a duck etc...then it must be a duck.

[Happier diner]

12 hours ago, offshoremanxman said:

Do you ever read anything before you pile in? They don’t have right of way it’s been made clear today in the article I linked above: 

https://gef.im/2021/11/16/pedestrians-and-vehicles-have-equal-priority-on-roundels/

I didn't jump in I was merely stating a long standing understanding and principle. As @Nellie stated earlier in the thread

I think the issue is with the term 'right of way' and its vagary.

My understanding is that as a pedestrian, if I walking along a road (and not at a crossing, junction etc.), and I wish to cross, then I am obliged to do so only when it is safe to (i.e. give way to vehicles). However once I have decided it is safe and have started to cross then any vehicle that subsequently comes along must 'yield' and allow me to cross safely. Which is in effect 'giving way' to me

I can't see how a roundel becomes any different and the article that you have posted reinforces my understanding

12 hours ago, Nellie said:

 

I’m pretty sure the Highway Code says that pedestrians always have the right of way on the road. It’s a fairly simple principle that makes sure you can’t just knock someone down for being in your way.

Absolutely. And applies to roundels too in my understanding

[emesde]

49 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

If it was unmarked there'd be no lines on the road and no pedestrian crossings. It's anything but unmarked. If it looks like a duck etc...then it must be a duck.

The police and DOI have confirmed some time ago that it is an unmarked crossing. 

The police have said: ‘We would like to clarify that the roundels are not roundabouts. The two roundels should be treated as unmarked junctions as defined in the Highway Code. Drivers should approach them slowly, smoothly and giving way to other road users.’

[Andy Onchan]

1 minute ago, emesde said:

The police and DOI have confirmed some time ago that it is an unmarked crossing. 

The police have said: ‘We would like to clarify that the roundels are not roundabouts. The two roundels should be treated as unmarked junctions as defined in the Highway Code. Drivers should approach them slowly, smoothly and giving way to other road users.’

It's a duck.... Whichever way you look at it.