Promenade - Megathread

[finlo]

46 minutes ago, Anyone said:

In WW2 the prom was fenced off pretty much like it is now. 

The DOI are doing a better job than the Luftwaffe ever could at total destruction!

[Anyone]

2 minutes ago, finlo said:

The DOI are doing a better job than the Luftwaffe ever could at total destruction!

I disagree , they would have not taken 2 years ( is that it so far ) to do it. One night would have done it. Then built an autobahn in a month. 

[TheTeapot]

2 hours ago, the stinking enigma said:

That'll explain the voids. If only they'd kept a record of where the pommel horse was.

It's for sale...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/574047002725407/permalink/1991950560935037/?sale_post_id=1991950560935037

[WTF]

16 hours ago, Happier diner said:

These power recovery systems are to provide power at peak times. They have made use of natural high level lakes which can be pumped up to. We do not have a high level lake to pump to (and it would cost millions to build one (if there were a suitable spot).

The hydro turbine in Sulby Glen generate less that 1000kws so we are talking small beans here. 

WRT Trams running down the mountain. Again it would be only any good for peak lopping and not an alternate energy source

Good ideas will be needed though and maybe a culmination of everyone's ideas will come up with something

The wise only possess ideas; the great part of mankind are possessed by them. The value of an idea has nothing whatever to do with the sincerity of the man who expresses it. The more an idea is developed, the more concise becomes its expression; the more a tree is pruned, the better is the fruit.

we're all out trees though, just the weeds are left.

[Out of the blue]

12 hours ago, Anyone said:

I disagree , they would have not taken 2 years ( is that it so far ) to do it. One night would have done it. Then built an autobahn in a month. 

In defence of the timescale, some of the issues should be attributed to replacing old sewerage and utilities that were not recorded, whilst trying to keep the services they provide operating, whilst also allowing residents to sleep and the traffic flowing. It would be easy to just shut the prom and move everyone from the locale, tear it up and replace everything in one go, but that isn’t possible. There have been huge cock ups, but logistically this was never just an autobahn.

[Numbnuts]

37 minutes ago, Out of the blue said:

In defence of the timescale, some of the issues should be attributed to replacing old sewerage and utilities that were not recorded, whilst trying to keep the services they provide operating, whilst also allowing residents to sleep and the traffic flowing. It would be easy to just shut the prom and move everyone from the locale, tear it up and replace everything in one go, but that isn’t possible. There have been huge cock ups, but logistically this was never just an autobahn.

Nonsense , in early months and even up to a year or more there was minimal men on the job. Plenty on here can vouch for that . Harmer in those early days stated there would be 50/60 workers on the site but thats not been achieved even recently when there clearly panicking . Sorry , the whole job has been a total cock up from day one made worse by lack of detailed plans from DOI .  Even now theres been a issue over order of granite as they got the numbers wrong on quantity. There was also a very generous contingency costing in the original contract to allow for unknown issues cropping up. Simply put the whole contract has been completly out of the scope of DOI management . They havent a clue and whats more dont care . 

[Out of the blue]

20 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

Nonsense , in early months and even up to a year or more there was minimal men on the job. Plenty on here can vouch for that . Harmer in those early days stated there would be 50/60 workers on the site but thats not been achieved even recently when there clearly panicking . Sorry , the whole job has been a total cock up from day one made worse by lack of detailed plans from DOI .  Even now theres been a issue over order of granite as they got the numbers wrong on quantity. There was also a very generous contingency costing in the original contract to allow for unknown issues cropping up. Simply put the whole contract has been completly out of the scope of DOI management . They havent a clue and whats more dont care . 

That is why I highlighted the word ‘some’. What was always going to be a logistically challenging job was obviously cocked up at the critical early stages, impacting the entire project. My comment only defends the DoI to the extent that it was never a standard road repair/renewal as some appear to think. 

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Out of the blue said:

In defence of the timescale, some of the issues should be attributed to replacing old sewerage and utilities that were not recorded, whilst trying to keep the services they provide operating, whilst also allowing residents to sleep and the traffic flowing. It would be easy to just shut the prom and move everyone from the locale, tear it up and replace everything in one go, but that isn’t possible. There have been huge cock ups, but logistically this was never just an autobahn.

You make a good point. However, they could have done all the services/utilities first and then done the reconstruction. A realistic programme could have been set with only selected sections being dona at any one time.Then everyone would have not been in everyone elses way and maybe the resources would not have gotten stretched to the point when nothing was being done right or effectively and the bombsite could have been avoided

If you look at Hawarden Avenue. What a great job being done there as the DOI guys have total access to get it done. No services to worry about. That quality resurfacing would have been fine for the prom

[hissingsid]

I find it totally amazing that there are so many structural engineers on an Island with a fairly average population.   Perhaps they should have had mystic Meg over for a visit to tell them where all the old pipes etc were.   Considering they have had to keep all the services going and traffic flowing to some extent they are not doing a bad job, it was a big ask .   There obviously have been some blips but that was to be expected.   I bet some of the biggest critics would have difficulty digging a hole.

 

 

[Dave Hedgehog]

9 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

If you look at Hawarden Avenue. What a great job being done there as the DOI guys have total access to get it done. No services to worry about. That quality resurfacing would have been fine for the prom

Except it wouldn't have been fine for the prom as the same knackered infrastructure would be under the shiny new tarmac and would need endless digging up of the road to maintain it.

[Neil Down]

45 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

If you look at Hawarden Avenue. What a great job being done there as the DOI guys have total access to get it done. No services to worry about. That quality resurfacing would have been fine for the prom

thanks for your input Tim

[Non-Believer]

A massive project like this was never going to be an quoted job with the number of unknown variables. The uncharted services being the biggest issue, in infrastructure put down since the Victorian era. That has to be accepted. It was always effectively going to be open ended.

All that having been said, there's been a massive amount of added complication all further multiplied by bullshit and the egos involved. The quoted huge voids still to reveal themselves. The extension of the MER on the tramlines. The defective construction of the new lines themselves, the cracking concrete, the apparent lack of a scheme of works for engaged contractors. All this points to a lack of necessary experience in the scale of such projects.

SOMEBODY with oversight should have been saying at the start, "Have we actually got what it takes to see this through properly and in a timely and professional manner? Has enough been put aside for the unknowns?"

After all, the reconstruction of 1.5 miles of promenade is not a task that takes place either here or anywhere else on a regular basis? In places with access to far greater resources and experience in such scale.

Somebody bit off far more than they could chew.

[Tempus Fugit]

55 minutes ago, hissingsid said:

I find it totally amazing that there are so many structural engineers on an Island with a fairly average population.  

 

 

they are only part time, they are also shipping experts and epidemiologists :-p

[Roger Mexico]

59 minutes ago, Out of the blue said:

That is why I highlighted the word ‘some’. What was always going to be a logistically challenging job was obviously cocked up at the critical early stages, impacting the entire project. My comment only defends the DoI to the extent that it was never a standard road repair/renewal as some appear to think. 

That rather misses the point.  If something isn't standard you make the assessment of how it isn't and adjust your schedules and costings accordingly.  You don't just start without thinking and then throw up your hands when it all goes wrong shouting "How could we possibly know?".

And in any case the Prom is hardly a complete unknown to the DoI - it's what they see when they look out of their windows for heaven's sake.  A lot of the 'unexpected' features they are claiming are things put in by themselves or under their supervision.  It's not like it was constructed by the Victorians and then untouched for 150 years.  And even older, undocumented stuff can be discovered with modern technology.  The whole project has simply shown how unprepared they were to carry it out - and they don't even seem to realise that they need to prepare, rather than just make things up as they go along, while doing whatever happens to suit them at the moment. 

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Dave Hedgehog said:

Except it wouldn't have been fine for the prom as the same knackered infrastructure would be under the shiny new tarmac and would need endless digging up of the road to maintain it.

If you had bothered to read my post, you would have seen that I had said do the infrastructure first

Simple programme

1) Renew water, electricity, gas, sewer infrastructure with a temporary reinstatement when complete

2) Resurface