Promenade - Megathread

[Two-lane]

Rather than compare the construction to an autobahn, what would the time and cost have been if the design had simply been to widen the carriageway by a few feet, stick the tram rails back down the middle, and lay tarmac on the road and dull, boring, grey block paving on the pedestrian areas.

Instead we have the insanity of the MER extension, black tarmac, pink concrete, black/dark grey/light grey/white/green granite with a bit of beige thrown in here and there. Cultural areas, curved pedestrian crossings, white granite on road surfaces and a carved granite structure which symbolises the utter tastelessness of it.
It is the road design equivalent of people who go to the pub wearing a white tracksuit slashed to the waist, a chest wig and fake gold medallions. If there is a name for this kind of design it is probably neoclassical post-modern chav. Some people like it.

The same approach was taken at Laxey bridge, which seems to have been designed by an artist rather than an engineer. Various shades of granite, stainless steel, up-ended cobble stones which are trip hazards. In a written description of the bridge the artist says that the overhanging bit is where you  are supposed to sit and think you are floating down the river. The pepper-pots are "objects which playfully reference existing elements of the harbour". But the main element, the concrete beams which are the bridge, were supposed to be covered in natural stone - which would be ok. But no-one got around to doing that bit so they just have sheets of black plastic bolted onto them.

I suppose you can say the sheets of black plastic playfully reference the inability of the DoI to finish a job, and the inability of the MHKs to exercise any control.
Take a look at Pooley Bridge on the Internet. An old stone bridge that was washed away. The replacement design is a stainless steel structure that, in my opinion, is simple and elegant. A damn sight better than black plastic sheets or strawberry flavoured concrete.

 

[thesultanofsheight]

31 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

And in any case the Prom is hardly a complete unknown to the DoI - it's what they see when they look out of their windows for heaven's sake.  A lot of the 'unexpected' features they are claiming are things put in by themselves or under their supervision.  It's not like it was constructed by the Victorians and then untouched for 150 years.  And even older, undocumented stuff can be discovered with modern technology.  The whole project has simply shown how unprepared they were to carry it out - and they don't even seem to realise that they need to prepare, rather than just make things up as they go along, while doing whatever happens to suit them at the moment. 

Well they’ve got what they wanted now in having the worse and most useless Minister known to man. I struggle to stop laughing when Baker trots our yet another embarrassing load of old crap he’s been told to trot out. If he had any basic integrity he wouldn’t have even entertained the job. I’ve been through Glencrutchery Road several times at peak hours since they took the cycle lane out. Isn’t it amaking that the second they take out all the changes the traffic is back to normal there not backed up to Onchan? They are just fuckwits. Every single one of them.  The IOM cannot afford to have that department just bin it off and put out to private contracts. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by thesultanofsheight

[Out of the blue]

23 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

That rather misses the point.  If something isn't standard you make the assessment of how it isn't and adjust your schedules and costings accordingly.  You don't just start without thinking and then throw up your hands when it all goes wrong shouting "How could we possibly know?".

And in any case the Prom is hardly a complete unknown to the DoI - it's what they see when they look out of their windows for heaven's sake.  A lot of the 'unexpected' features they are claiming are things put in by themselves or under their supervision.  It's not like it was constructed by the Victorians and then untouched for 150 years.  And even older, undocumented stuff can be discovered with modern technology.  The whole project has simply shown how unprepared they were to carry it out - and they don't even seem to realise that they need to prepare, rather than just make things up as they go along, while doing whatever happens to suit them at the moment. 

I think the point, that was correctly alluded to by another poster and is reinforced by your post is that it was always going to be a big complex job, and the project team never got a on top of the brief. Incompetence, inexperience or just a lack or appropriate resource, I do not know

[TheTeapot]

1 minute ago, thesultanofsheight said:

Well they’ve got what they wanted now in having the worse and most useless Minister known to man.

Baker is worse than Harmer? That's an incredible achievement.

[Roger Mexico]

17 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said:

[...]  The IOM cannot afford to have that department just bin it off and put out to private contracts. 

Except of course that's exactly what they have been doing and it's actually made matters much worse.  Oh for the days when all we had to complain about was useless roundabouts!

The solution to a Department run by incompetents isn't to get rid of the Department, it's to get rid of the people and employ some better ones.

[Non-Believer]

26 minutes ago, Out of the blue said:

Incompetence, inexperience or just a lack or appropriate resource, I do not know

All three, in no particular order.

[Two-lane]

Before construction started, the southbound promenade carriageway at the Broadway junction was two lanes wide at the traffic lights. The new scheme has a single lane onto a roundabout.

I do not travel into Douglas at rush hour, so I have no idea  of traffic density. However, during the morning rush hour if there is a heavy flow of traffic from Broadway turning south onto the prom., with very little north bound traffic, the southbound traffic on the prom. will get a significant amount of blocking.

[Neil Down]

Not sure why we are at all surprised as this department regularly over promises and under achieves

 

It also seems to attract the very best ministers the island can offer

Edited September 15, 2020 by Neil Down

[Numbnuts]

Sorry I don't get the excuses offered for what is clearly a totally inept Dept. Its a road ! Whats so hard , its 1 1/2 to 2 miles long. Yes it has cables , pipes and the likes under the surface . Everyone knew they were there but clearly it has just been beyond the abilities of all these allegedly experts in civil engineering with all there combined experience. There has been a total cock up from day one and no sign anyone has been capable of grabbing the reigns and sorting it out. Workmanship as clearly can be seen has been very poor although Gibsons and the paviers and granite seems to be laid well. Bottom line , I've said it so many times , they had no detailed plans to start with hence the jumping around . It was meant to be finished next month !!! Works have been cut back and now still behind again on new schedule so in every area they have failed . DOI are lets face it a total embarrassment in every scheme they take on. CEO needs to be removed and someone , should have been the CM years ago , needs to halt all schemes in DOI's timeline ,after March next year and once and for all sort that Dept out before they screw up anymore and waste more money . They just dont care . Remove their responsibility ! .

Edited September 15, 2020 by Numbnuts

[dilligaf]

1 hour ago, Numbnuts said:

Sorry I don't get the excuses offered for what is clearly a totally inept Dept. Its a road ! Whats so hard , its 1 1/2 to 2 miles long. Yes it has cables , pipes and the likes under the surface . Everyone knew they were there but clearly it has just been beyond the abilities of all these allegedly experts in civil engineering with all there combined experience. There has been a total cock up from day one and no sign anyone has been capable of grabbing the reigns and sorting it out. Workmanship as clearly can be seen has been very poor although Gibsons and the paviers and granite seems to be laid well. Bottom line , I've said it so many times , they had no detailed plans to start with hence the jumping around . It was meant to be finished next month !!! Works have been cut back and now still behind again on new schedule so in every area they have failed . DOI are lets face it a total embarrassment in every scheme they take on. CEO needs to be removed and someone , should have been the CM years ago , needs to halt all schemes in DOI's timeline ,after March next year and once and for all sort that Dept out before they screw up anymore and waste more money . They just dont care . Remove their responsibility ! .

That’s not fair at all Numbnuts. It is far from a simple road with a few pipes under. Go and look at it. Everything is being altered too to a massive degree. It isn’t just rip up and re- lay the top surface. I know that you know better than what you posted.

[Boris Johnson]

4 hours ago, Two-lane said:

Before construction started, the southbound promenade carriageway at the Broadway junction was two lanes wide at the traffic lights. The new scheme has a single lane onto a roundabout.

I do not travel into Douglas at rush hour, so I have no idea  of traffic density. However, during the morning rush hour if there is a heavy flow of traffic from Broadway turning south onto the prom., with very little north bound traffic, the southbound traffic on the prom. will get a significant amount of blocking.

You are assuming that drivers will give way to the right as they should. This is the Isle of Man where drivers are that skilled they don't need rules, they will all sit there looking at each other until someone gets fed up and forces their way through.

[dilligaf]

2 minutes ago, Boris Johnson said:

You are assuming that drivers will give way to the right as they should. This is the Isle of Man where drivers are that skilled they don't need rules, they will all sit there looking at each other until someone gets fed up and forces their way through.

Do I have to play Roly’s  “ The  Stand-off“ again ?

[Dave Hedgehog]

6 hours ago, Happier diner said:

If you had bothered to read my post, you would have seen that I had said do the infrastructure first

Simple programme

1) Renew water, electricity, gas, sewer infrastructure with a temporary reinstatement when complete

2) Resurface

Right. So exactly what they are doing now then.

[Banker]

If we didn’t have the horse trams and all the delays they have caused I am sure the bloody thing would have been finished at start of year

[dilligaf]

1 minute ago, Banker said:

If we didn’t have the horse trams and all the delays they have caused I am sure the bloody thing would have been finished at start of year

Starting to think the same. I want the trams kept, bu5 not where they are going to run. A simple single track from Derby Castle to Harris prom works do.