Out of the blue Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 25 minutes ago, Numbnuts said: Sorry , your wrong , its not a major job apart from the length. Nothing their doing below ground is any big deal and just standard civil engineering works. They have made it a major job by incompetence and inept planning. Yes its on a bigger scale as in ducts and services but its all done systematically , or should be , and away you go. The only real difference is while before you'd need a 1 metre trench now you need 2 metre one. Kerbs and paviers and the likes is all standard installation . Everytime MUA. or Manx Gas renew services its only whats happening on the prom. And yes as I've said before I have done everyone of the jobs down there apart from Gas and its all about planning and program of works to make it seamless. Hence the issues , they havent clearly had either . It is a major job because of the scale. As you will know undoubtedly know scale adds resource and complexity and where an unknown occurs (as it does), the implications and knock on effects are magnified. I agree with you though that the scheme would not have been a major issue for competent project manager’s who had a track record in similar schemes, and from the beginning this is where I have felt the issue has been. Politics has also got in the way too of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Barlow said: No you're wrong. Wrong, smug and wrong again. The sewers throughout Douglas are well mapped. And that includes every upgrade since the many drawings produced by the Victorian engineers installed the forward thinking gravity and syphon sewer system, through to IRIS and beyond. There are records for electricity maintenance and upgrades since the days of the Douglas Corporation DC supply. The GPO...Manx Te;ecom.....have been upgraded and maintained ever since Queen Victoria had her first iPhone. Yes of course there are going to unknowns, I'm not disputing that. But your hapless post is just a waste of everyone's time. Haha. Sorry about the hapless comment, I was out of order. Being serious though, yes the victorians were good with their drawings but over the last 100 years all that stuff has been covered over, the uncovered and covered again. Often with concrete. The roads has moved as have the alignments of the kerbside and footpaths. Add the that land reclamation, diversions etc. That makes exact location of these old assets impossible and the only option us to dig and see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, dilligaf said: You quoted what I posted just to be pedantic re the post I quoted. No I didnt , it was in answer to your claim it is a big job . Its so not . The powers that be have made it one by incompetence . But as a job its pretty straight forward or should have been. Any building project regardless of size has issues that have to be overcome . Contractors know this and so do clients as always an % rate included for unknowns . Edited September 19, 2020 by Numbnuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Numbnuts said: No I didnt , it was in answer to your claim it is a big job . Its so not . The powers that be have made it one by incompetence . But as a job its pretty straight forward or should have been. Any building project regardlass of size has issues that have o be overcome . Contractors know this and so do clients as always an % rate included for unknowns . I agree it's not a big job in the world of civil engineering. It's not HS2 or the chunnel. You could be fair and say it's a tricky job. But then we knew that and all the risks were known in advance. Sure theres always surprises and a level of uncertainty but surely our cant have been that far different from what was surveyed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maire Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 The lack of forward planning from both the DOI and the contractors is astounding, Any other jurisdiction they both would be held accountable But this is the Isle of Man - Where You Can..... make a major balls up and get away with it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, ptarmigan said: duplicate Edited September 19, 2020 by WTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, ptarmigan said: I repeat, how has Nick still got that job? is he in the right lodge ?? Edited September 19, 2020 by WTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Numbnuts said: No I didnt , it was in answer to your claim it is a big job . Its so not . The powers that be have made it one by incompetence . But as a job its pretty straight forward or should have been. Any building project regardless of size has issues that have to be overcome . Contractors know this and so do clients as always an % rate included for unknowns . I was being pedantic in my reply to ptarmigan, because of his double negative. But it still is a big job in my view, not being a prom builder like so many on here. Maybe the Manx Forums’ team of experts should be down there taking control of the whole job. It would be completed in a month. Edited September 19, 2020 by dilligaf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesultanofsheight Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Numbnuts said: No I didnt , it was in answer to your claim it is a big job . Its so not . The powers that be have made it one by incompetence . But as a job its pretty straight forward or should have been. Any building project regardless of size has issues that have to be overcome . Contractors know this and so do clients as always an % rate included for unknowns . Anyone who supports what’s going on on the prom and thinks it’s a “big job” just shows how completely detached from reality they are. You do worry how glued to reality some people are on here. Plenty of projects like this are undertaken in the UK all the time. It’s not Crossrail or the Channel Tunnel. It’s digging up 2 miles of road and replacing the services. It’s getting to the point that it’s going to take longer doing this than it took the Victorians to build it with horse drawn carts and shovels in the first place. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD4ELI Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 20 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said: Anyone who supports what’s going on on the prom and thinks it’s a “big job” just shows how completely detached from reality they are. You do worry how glued to reality some people are on here. Plenty of projects like this are undertaken in the UK all the time. It’s not Crossrail or the Channel Tunnel. It’s digging up 2 miles of road and replacing the services. It’s getting to the point that it’s going to take longer doing this than it took the Victorians to build it with horse drawn carts and shovels in the first place. & it's not even 2 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barlow Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Out of the blue said: It is a major job because of the scale. 28 minutes ago, thesultanofsheight said: Anyone who supports what’s going on on the prom and thinks it’s a “big job” just shows how completely detached from reality they are. I have yet to meet anyone who is not of the opinion that the job should have been carried out in sections. Even if that means Loch Prom, Harris Prom, Central Prom, Queens Prom, but I am sure there are more logical ways to do it.. It is just astounding that the whole shebang has been carried out like it has. I can think of maybe a handful of reasons to do it that way, but they are far outweighed by the hundreds of reasons not to. It is small straightforward civil engineering job made huge by incompetence and/or greed. But it doesn't matter because they are making a fortune out of the Isle of Man taxpayers. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 3 hours ago, thesultanofsheight said: Anyone who supports what’s going on on the prom and thinks it’s a “big job” just shows how completely detached from reality they are. You do worry how glued to reality some people are on here. Plenty of projects like this are undertaken in the UK all the time. It’s not Crossrail or the Channel Tunnel. It’s digging up 2 miles of road and replacing the services. It’s getting to the point that it’s going to take longer doing this than it took the Victorians to build it with horse drawn carts and shovels in the first place. It's a 'big job' in Manx terms though. Auldyn Construction wouldn't be considered for Crossrail or the Channel Tunnel and the budget would be a lot more than the Prom. I imagine the project is too small for Costain Group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 How much are we up to now for the hire of cones and signage alone, I wonder? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barlow Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, Non-Believer said: How much are we up to now for the hire of cones and signage alone, I wonder? Ask Dougie, he must be feckin' rolling in money by now and there is no end in sight.. Edited September 19, 2020 by Barlow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maire Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, Max Power said: 13 minutes ago, Max Power said: It's a 'big job' in Manx terms though. Auldyn Construction wouldn't be considered for Crossrail or the Channel Tunnel and the budget would be a lot more than the Prom. I imagine the project is too small for Costain Group? It's a small job for their parent company who should be able to advise them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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