Promenade - Megathread

[asitis]

2 minutes ago, WTF said:

try ignoring these standards and rules on your own property improvements/upgrades and see how quickly the box ticking tossers turn up to force you to follow them.

I wouldn't mind betting a friend of mine had more grief and supervision over a fucking  garden fence than the whole of the prom !

[Happier diner]

3 hours ago, WTF said:

try ignoring these standards and rules on your own property improvements/upgrades and see how quickly the box ticking tossers turn up to force you to follow them.

I wasn't sticking up for them just understanding. I would have thought that such things were specified in the contract with the contractor and then he would have had a civil obligation in law to meet the specification.

[Non-Believer]

12 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I wasn't sticking up for them just understanding. I would have thought that such things were specified in the contract with the contractor and then he would have had a civil obligation in law to meet the specification.

Put it this way - if in say, 5 years time when the promenade is finished () and a contractor turns up because there's a fault developed with a cable underneath somewhere and sinks his digger bucket or spade in, expecting there to be the expected standard of 750mm (roadway) or 600mm (pavement) of cover over the services and there's only 300mm of cover over the services - what's going to happen? Frying tonight? Large explosions? Power and/or gas outages?

The standards are there for a reason and have been arrived at through science and probably painful previous experience. And any Govt job should be setting an example and adhering to them. There's even regulation about what that infill is supposed to be. You don't want sharp-edged house brick rubble up against high voltage cables for instance. Common sense.

[finlo]

7 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Put it this way - if in say, 5 years time when the promenade is finished () and a contractor turns up because there's a fault developed with a cable underneath somewhere and sinks his digger bucket or spade in, expecting there to be the expected standard of 750mm (roadway) or 600mm (pavement) of cover over the services and there's only 300mm of cover over the services - what's going to happen? Frying tonight? Large explosions? Power and/or gas outages?

The standards are there for a reason and have been arrived at through science and probably painful previous experience. And any Govt job should be setting an example and adhering to them. There's even regulation about what that infill is supposed to be. You don't want sharp-edged house brick rubble up against high voltage cables for instance. Common sense.

Common sense ain't that common!

[Happier diner]

25 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Put it this way - if in say, 5 years time when the promenade is finished () and a contractor turns up because there's a fault developed with a cable underneath somewhere and sinks his digger bucket or spade in, expecting there to be the expected standard of 750mm (roadway) or 600mm (pavement) of cover over the services and there's only 300mm of cover over the services - what's going to happen? Frying tonight? Large explosions? Power and/or gas outages?

The standards are there for a reason and have been arrived at through science and probably painful previous experience. And any Govt job should be setting an example and adhering to them. There's even regulation about what that infill is supposed to be. You don't want sharp-edged house brick rubble up against high voltage cables for instance. Common sense.

I keep asking you for a reference for these standards you quote but you keep ignoring me. I am not disagreeing with your principle but questioning where you get your information. 

[TheTeapot]

7 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I keep asking you for a reference for these standards you quote but you keep ignoring me. I am not disagreeing with your principle but questioning where you get your information. 

Quote

The minimum depth of cover for mains should be 600mm in footways and 750mm in roadways/verges from the finished ground level. The trench should be approximately the pipe diameter plus 300mm wide and minimum cover plus the pipe diameter deep. The bottom of the trench should be trimmed to enable the main to be bedded evenly and consistently throughout the trench, at the correct cover. Sharp stones should be excluded from the base of the trench. Where the base of the trench is unsuitable e.g. rocks and stones, the trench should be excavated a further 75mm and a bed of suitable fine material laid and compacted. No other utility should be installed over, below, or within 250mm to the side of the gas main

http://www.manxgas.com/downloads/tech-spec.pdf

[TheTeapot]

It's not difficult to look it up @Happier diner, it is all detailed on hse.gov.uk and a lot of other places, but I've given you the manx gas one there, keep it local. 

[Beelzebub3]

11 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I keep asking you for a reference for these standards you quote but you keep ignoring me. I am not disagreeing with your principle but questioning where you get your information. 

HAUC regulations NRSWA put that in google and you will get all the information required for reconstructing a highway.

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, Beelzebub3 said:

HAUC regulations NRSWA put that in google and you will get all the information required for reconstructing a highway.

Hi There. Thank you for the link. This has no legal standing in the Isle of Man as far as I can see.. Sensible guidance though and you would expect a similar standard here. Not a rule though.

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

It's not difficult to look it up @Happier diner, it is all detailed on hse.gov.uk and a lot of other places, but I've given you the manx gas one there, keep it local. 

Not seeing any rules here. Guidance and ' shoulds ' . If its manx gas guidance though, how come it's not being observed by manx gas?

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

It's not difficult to look it up @Happier diner, it is all detailed on hse.gov.uk and a lot of other places, but I've given you the manx gas one there, keep it local. 

Turns out it is hard to look up, I haven't found anything yet. This is the Isle of Man, not England. Clues in the gov.uk

[Ham_N_Eggs]

18 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Not seeing any rules here. Guidance and ' shoulds ' . If its manx gas guidance though, how come it's not being observed by manx gas?

Are they putting the line in or is it being done by the contractors?

[Numbnuts]

4 hours ago, Happier diner said:

I wasn't sticking up for them just understanding. I would have thought that such things were specified in the contract with the contractor and then he would have had a civil obligation in law to meet the specification.

Individual site situations mean you have to adjust accordingly . There are minumun depths as said before and building control will check and if not happy with how services are laid they wont pass them. Not sure what you getting at tbh as lots of us have made it clear its a minimum requirement at discretion of building control . The biggest factor being safety and ability to dig up safely in years to come . In the case of electric for instance cables should be covered with sand and have tape over the top so on excavation you get a warning when your near service .   

[Numbnuts]

1 hour ago, Ham_N_Eggs said:

Are they putting the line in or is it being done by the contractors?

Sub contractors working on behalf of Manx Gas in this case S Christians and should be signed off by building control. But hey its a governmemt job so who knows . Just know no way would that above be passed on a private development . Also I could be wrong but I dont think theres a full time Clerk of works on site but there so should be as its too big a job not to have one .

Edited October 4, 2020 by Numbnuts

[Non-Believer]

3 hours ago, Happier diner said:

I keep asking you for a reference for these standards you quote but you keep ignoring me. I am not disagreeing with your principle but questioning where you get your information. 

You appear to be trying to imply that because it's IoM the contractors shouldn't have to comply to accepted UK standards/best practices? They may even be those of the EU as well?

Gas and electricity don't recognise political jurisdictions. They will create mayhem or worse, wherever they get the opportunity, without giving it to them on a plate.

Some might say that what has gone on with Douglas promenade to date has already been of a low enough standard, without letting standards slip further just because we're a rock in the middle of the Irish Sea.