Promenade - Megathread

[Scotty]

4 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

 

 

David Christian doesn’t fuck about 

[Gladys]

2 minutes ago, Scotty said:

David Christian doesn’t fuck about 

The Germans don't f. about. 

[Numbnuts]

3 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

Try questioning an architect. 

"Are you absolutely sure this is correct?" doesn't go down well.

Very true and as they get paid big bucks what they say goes as they have the letters after their name and often arogance too ! Sites and jobs I've been on we have often queried works , shaken are heads and did what we are told.  I mean what do the low lifes know about anything , surprisingly lots but are not getting paid to offer it up ! 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Numbnuts

[Roger Mexico]

43 minutes ago, Numbnuts said:

Very true and as they get paid big bucks what they say goes as they have the letters after their name and often arogance too ! Sites and jobs I've been on we have often queried works , shaken are heads and did what we are told.  I mean what do the low lifes know about anything , surprisingly lots but are not getting paid to offer it up ! 

I think this is one reason why things have got even worse since they got rid of the direct labour force.  Government-employed manual workers are more likely to speak up because they are harder to sack if they say the 'wrong' thing and often will have more knowledge of having worked in the area or on similar jobs before.  When work is carried out by a long chain of contractors and sub-contractors everyone just keeps quiet and tries to work out who they will blame when it goes wrong.

Of course if management are more concerned with protecting their egos than doing a good job, then they want to get rid of the manual workers for that very reason. 

[quilp]

How very true. 

[Feelslike]

11 hours ago, Numbnuts said:

Very true and as they get paid big bucks what they say goes as they have the letters after their name and often arogance too ! Sites and jobs I've been on we have often queried works , shaken are heads and did what we are told.  I mean what do the low lifes know about anything , surprisingly lots but are not getting paid to offer it up ! 

That's interesting, and perhaps something that was more of an issue in years gone by or on jobs without properly managed or implemented contracts? I have never experienced it. Architects and engineers might not like their work being questioned but that is true of most people. I can't think of any occasion where they haven't either changed their design or agreed to change in specification where things have been demonstrably wrong. There is often a difference between working to legal and statutory requirements or 'a reasonable standard', and thinking that it could be done better or to a higher standard.

An often used phase is "if it looks wrong, it is wrong" but the client pays for changes to the spec or design, not the design team, so you have to be able to demonstrate *why* it is wrong. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Feelslike

[Beelzebub3]

10 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

I think this is one reason why things have got even worse since they got rid of the direct labour force.  Government-employed manual workers are more likely to speak up because they are harder to sack if they say the 'wrong' thing and often will have more knowledge of having worked in the area or on similar jobs before.  When work is carried out by a long chain of contractors and sub-contractors everyone just keeps quiet and tries to work out who they will blame when it goes wrong.

Of course if management are more concerned with protecting their egos than doing a good job, then they want to get rid of the manual workers for that very reason. 

Management do not accept questioning as a part of the role of a labourer, they are there to do what they are told whether right or wrong, if you do ask any ackward questions your days are numbered and they will drive you out. I know plenty who have been sent to the naughty corner for questioning the management and are kept away in case they speak out, and not only in the CS but manual workers also. 

[Barlow]

15 hours ago, Scotty said:

David Christian doesn’t fuck about 

I'm sure he doesn't but isn't there an irony lavishing praise just here.

[paswt]

11 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

I think this is one reason why things have got even worse since they got rid of the direct labour force.  Government-employed manual workers are more likely to speak up because they are harder to sack if they say the 'wrong' thing and often will have more knowledge of having worked in the area or on similar jobs before.  When work is carried out by a long chain of contractors and sub-contractors everyone just keeps quiet and tries to work out who they will blame when it goes wrong.

Of course if management are more concerned with protecting their egos than doing a good job, then they want to get rid of the manual workers for that very reason. 

Fair point , when you have a number of independent trades working on a project it can lead to disputes between contractors and their individual employees which can escalate into sabotage .

If you then have a management system where nobody is ultimately responsible  when it goes wrong those in the system pass the "blame parcel"  and as they are invariably all culpable to a greater or lesser extent they close ranks fearful that it may be them who gets the elbow.

The situation is exacerbated (in central and local government in particular) when you have a manager ( with an autocratic management style) appointed who is clearly out of his/her depth with a workforce ( including perhaps some curmudgeonly employees close to retirement who are time served craftsmen 😉) .

He/she feels threatened by these employees , disregards their views  and not surprisingly they then "do as they are instructed" and it all "goes up the pictures" . 

The line manager  then takes steps to ease out  the employees and employee those who are compliant but are incompetent and when it goes wrong again as it inevitably will  ....... 

[Beelzebub3]

2 hours ago, paswt said:

Fair point , when you have a number of independent trades working on a project it can lead to disputes between contractors and their individual employees which can escalate into sabotage .

If you then have a management system where nobody is ultimately responsible  when it goes wrong those in the system pass the "blame parcel"  and as they are invariably all culpable to a greater or lesser extent they close ranks fearful that it may be them who gets the elbow.

The situation is exacerbated (in central and local government in particular) when you have a manager ( with an autocratic management style) appointed who is clearly out of his/her depth with a workforce ( including perhaps some curmudgeonly employees close to retirement who are time served craftsmen 😉) .

He/she feels threatened by these employees , disregards their views  and not surprisingly they then "do as they are instructed" and it all "goes up the pictures" . 

The line manager  then takes steps to ease out  the employees and employee those who are compliant but are incompetent and when it goes wrong again as it inevitably will  ....... 

You must have worked at the DOI!

[Barlow]

On Manx Radio yesterday morning Tim Baker MHK described himself as a bold and ambitious operator.

He has to 31st March before his newly found exuberance of ego vanishes into a puddle on the promenade.

 

[Non-Believer]

Most of his ministerial output to date has been to announce delays with the Prom scheme. He inherited this situation to be fair but reading through the available minutes of meetings appears to indicate that he's still proving to be impotent in respect of getting things moving any better, his requests and demands are consistently not met (or ignored).

DOI will chew him up, make a scapegoat out of him and toss him back to the electorate who will make a decision on "his failings". As the DOI have with so many before.

[Barlow]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

Most of his ministerial output to date has been to announce delays with the Prom scheme. He inherited this situation to be fair but reading through the available minutes of meetings appears to indicate that he's still proving to be impotent in respect of getting things moving any better, his requests and demands are consistently not met (or ignored).

DOI will chew him up, make a scapegoat out of him and toss him back to the electorate who will make a decision on "his failings". As the DOI have with so many before.

The now grandiosely monikered [Right] Honourable Tim Baker MHK is exuding confidence way beyond his worth and ability. He's been a quiet man of Manx Politics since 2016 but recently the worm has turned.

DOI may well chew him up and make a scapegoat out of him as n-b suggests, but meanwhile Tim Baker is causing a lot of stir amongst the Private Sector Landlords. He's looks to be one of Quayle's potential golden boys now that Chris Thomas has shifted back to the real world. We'll see.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Barlow

[John Wright]

21 minutes ago, Barlow said:

The now grandiosely monikered Right Honourable Tim Baker MHK is exuding confidence way beyond his worth and ability. He's been a quiet man of Manx Politics since 2016 but recently the worm has turned.

DOI may well chew him up and make a scapegoat out of him as n-b suggests, but meanwhile Tim Baker is causing a lot of stir amongst the Private Sector Landlords. He's looks to be one of Quayle's potential golden boys now that Chris Thomas has shifted back to the real world. We'll see.

None of our politicians use, or are entitled to use, Right Honourable. That designates membership of the Privy Council. 

[Barlow]

Thank you sir, for the clarification. His title 'Honourable' is enough to stick in my craw just now anyway.