Promenade - Megathread

[Scotty]

2 minutes ago, Nellie said:

I walked the length of the Prom and back today, and my impression of the bits that are virtually finished is similar.

The pedestrian crossings are an accident waiting the happen. They are already dirty, and just look grey, and blend in with the road. The one on Church Road is especially dangerous, as it wasn't there before, and motorists may not be expecting to have to stop. And that's before we mention the lack of zig-zags, which may, or may not, be illegal.

On Loch Prom, there is far too much black tarmac. The seaside footpath just blends in with the road. On the 'artist's impressions' there were more shades of grey, and clearer separations. 

I have no idea what the pedestrian crossings without the stripes are for? Who has priority? How are we supposed to use them? I know that there is talk of 'shared space', but what does that actually mean, and what is being done to educate both motorists and pedestrians how to use it?

I agree that the red concrete already looks tired and faded, and apart from breaking up the mass of black, it doesn't seem to serve any purpose.

No effort has been made to tidy up, so there are little piles of sand everywhere, which hand accumulated around the Heras fencing bases, and haven't even been brushed away. 

Around the Villa, they'e reused hundreds of old paving slabs, alongside new ones, which looks tatty.

I know that these are mostly aesthetic matters, but we've been sold the idea that this would look light, bright, modern, attractive etc. but it really doesn't deliver.

I guess that when it is properly finished and they get street furniture, signage etc. in and clean everything up, but so far, its rather underwhelming. 

 

 

Sorry, but there was always a pedestrian crossing on Church Road, right outside Sam Webb’s.

[Nellie]

19 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Sorry, but there was always a pedestrian crossing on Church Road, right outside Sam Webb’s.

Yes, there was a light controlled (pelican??) crossing after the junction with Castle Street. That was removed months ago.

Now there is a 'zebra' crossing, running continuously from Castle Street, towards the Sefton, so it has been moved 25-30 yards closer to the Prom. and there are no traffic lights.

That's a lot less stopping distance, if you aren't expecting it.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Nellie

[Scotty]

31 minutes ago, Nellie said:

Yes, there was a light controlled (pelican??) crossing after the junction with Castle Street. That was removed months ago.

Now there is a 'zebra' crossing, running continuously from Castle Street, towards the Sefton, so it has been moved 25-30 yards closer to the Prom. and there are no traffic lights.

That's a lot less stopping distance, if you aren't expecting it.

Sorry , didn’t see it had moved and morphed. Don’t think so called shared space is safe at all.

[NoTail]

I would prefer not to share my space with a bus or a Douglas taxi. 

[Two-lane]

49 minutes ago, Nellie said:

Now there is a 'zebra' crossing, running continuously from Castle Street, towards the Sefton, so it has been moved 25-30 yards closer to the Prom. and there are no traffic lights.

There are, of course, regulations for everything.... e.g.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/330214/ltn-2-95_pedestrian-crossings.pdf#:~:text=However%2C a minimum distance of 20 metres is,at the give-way line of the side road.

If it is within the regulations, it is safe.

(My opinion is that the style used in some other countries where traffic turning off a main road has to be prepared to immediately give way to pedestrians is a better way. And, the only country I have visited in recent years is Tenerife where some locals step out onto a crossing without looking. You always have to be prepared to stop - or face the possibility of finding out what a Spanish jail looks like.)

[Nellie]

1 hour ago, Two-lane said:

There are, of course, regulations for everything.... e.g.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/330214/ltn-2-95_pedestrian-crossings.pdf#:~:text=However%2C a minimum distance of 20 metres is,at the give-way line of the side road.

If it is within the regulations, it is safe.

(My opinion is that the style used in some other countries where traffic turning off a main road has to be prepared to immediately give way to pedestrians is a better way. And, the only country I have visited in recent years is Tenerife where some locals step out onto a crossing without looking. You always have to be prepared to stop - or face the possibility of finding out what a Spanish jail looks like.)

Your link took me to this document, which, on Pages 12 - 15 seems to make it clear that the whole Zebra Crossing Controlled Area, should be indicated by zig-zags, and metal studs. Both are absent, at the moment, on all crossings. 

http://www.ukroads.org/webfiles/ZPPPCRGD-1997.pdf 

[Happier diner]

7 hours ago, Nellie said:

Your link took me to this document, which, on Pages 12 - 15 seems to make it clear that the whole Zebra Crossing Controlled Area, should be indicated by zig-zags, and metal studs. Both are absent, at the moment, on all crossings. 

http://www.ukroads.org/webfiles/ZPPPCRGD-1997.pdf 

I suppose that's because they are ugly and spoil the 'look'. It's an interesting arguement when you look at shared spaces. The crossings that are not legal crossings are supposed to encourage drivers to give way without it being obligatory. It seems to be the fashion and I have seen it work.....can't vouch for here though....mini roundabouts seem to work elsewhere but we still struggle with QB

[Andy Onchan]

So they haven't scrapped the shared space design after all then?

Quote

That plan was scrapped, as was an ill-judged ’shared space’ design where there were no conventional crossings and cars and pedestrians would have equal right of way.

 

[Happier diner]

54 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

So they haven't scrapped the shared space design after all then?

 

No. Clearly not. Unless they are digging it all up again.

[Two-lane]

The attitude of the DoI towards shared space seems to be variable. At the time of the Laxey bridge redesign, shared space on the prom. was already being discussed. Laxey bridge is obviously a very low speed area, but the DoI thought it necessary to change from a shared space area to having a pedestrian pavement.

[Andy Onchan]

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

No. Clearly not. Unless they are digging it all up again.

So why the back-tracking? I thought this element of the design was ditched because of cost and potential Mexican stand-offs between motorists and pedestrians? Have DOI found some pennies down the back of the sofa?

This is going to be a monumental over-spend (notwithstanding the extra costs to allow for the Broadway and Church Rd utility upgrades)!

This is all going to cost the original amount that Minister Gawne said it would, £30+ million?

[MadAsHell]

11 hours ago, Nellie said:

Your link took me to this document, which, on Pages 12 - 15 seems to make it clear that the whole Zebra Crossing Controlled Area, should be indicated by zig-zags, and metal studs. Both are absent, at the moment, on all crossings. 

http://www.ukroads.org/webfiles/ZPPPCRGD-1997.pdf 

Contrast with the new MER crossings, where they're playing road mark bingo 

[ellanvannin2010]

A large number of square black posts are being put in on the pavement on Queens/Central promenade, must be a new idea or they were forgotten about as they are digging up the newly laid tarmac to fit them.

Wonder what they are for?.

 

[Roger Mexico]

5 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

A large number of square black posts are being put in on the pavement on Queens/Central promenade, must be a new idea or they were forgotten about as they are digging up the newly laid tarmac to fit them.

Wonder what they are for?.

New electric charging points?

[slinkydevil]

6 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said:

A large number of square black posts are being put in on the pavement on Queens/Central promenade, must be a new idea or they were forgotten about as they are digging up the newly laid tarmac to fit them.

Wonder what they are for?.

 

How tall are they?