Numbnuts Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 18 minutes ago, Happier diner said: Cold? Surely like you say that can't be right. Steel melts at 1500C and weld temperatures can be 2000C. Surely a variation in atmospheric temperature +/- 5C isn't going to influence the quality of a weld! Yes I dont see it either . But its the new process they were doing so who knows but only passing on what I was told . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellanvannin2010 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, doc.fixit said: Back to the old question, why weld? Just use fishplates like they have been for decades. The potential wear problem is just not worth considering with the minimal traffic. Fishplates tend to potentially need more maintenance and need to be electrically bonded for a return path for the electric current (if they are going to be used for electric trams that is). The fishplates they have fitted are bonded so you can read into that what you wish. Surrounding the whole lot with coloured concrete does not seem a stunning idea though. However, the old track was all fishplated joints and I cannot recall the road ever being dug up to do maintenance on the joints as horse cars are not heavy nor is the amount of rail traffic on them and the joints looked good when ripped up. 27 minutes ago, Numbnuts said: Yes I dont see it either . But its the new process they were doing so who knows but only passing on what I was told . Rail thermite welding has been around for over 100 years, so what is the "new" process they are using?. Edited February 11, 2021 by ellanvannin2010 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 33 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said: eed to be electrically bonded for a return path for the electric current (if they are going to be used for electric trams that is). The fishplates they have fitted are bonded so you can read into that what you wish. Quote: "Mr Black said in the long term, the new tracks may be used by modern trams as part of a possible light rail system running from Birch Hill to Farmhill." Also in the same article: "Mr Black said the DoI was looking at the idea of a ’green tramway’ for this southern section of the line, with the tracks laid on sleepers in ballast rather than in concrete, to allow plants to grow." I think that the horses may have a bit of difficulty getting traction in loose ballast. But the horse manure mixed in the ballast will be good for growing roses. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbnuts Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 58 minutes ago, ellanvannin2010 said: Fishplates tend to potentially need more maintenance and need to be electrically bonded for a return path for the electric current (if they are going to be used for electric trams that is). The fishplates they have fitted are bonded so you can read into that what you wish. Surrounding the whole lot with coloured concrete does not seem a stunning idea though. However, the old track was all fishplated joints and I cannot recall the road ever being dug up to do maintenance on the joints as horse cars are not heavy nor is the amount of rail traffic on them and the joints looked good when ripped up. Rail thermite welding has been around for over 100 years, so what is the "new" process they are using?. New to our rails , sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellanvannin2010 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 6 minutes ago, Numbnuts said: New to our rails , sorry The old Manx Electric Railway Company used thermite welding on rails around the Laxey area in the 1950's to extend the life of rail bought second hand in 1894 where the rail ends had badly worn. Rail and welds were still in use nearly 50 years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellanvannin2010 Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 37 minutes ago, Two-lane said: Also in the same article: "Mr Black said the DoI was looking at the idea of a ’green tramway’ for this southern section of the line, with the tracks laid on sleepers in ballast rather than in concrete, to allow plants to grow." I think that the horses may have a bit of difficulty getting traction in loose ballast. But the horse manure mixed in the ballast will be good for growing roses. Fintona Horse Tramway in Ireland did it back in the distant past although it looks like ash between the rails. http://www.trolleybus.net/subhtml/picture9.htm https://player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-the-last-horse-drawn-tram-in-ireland-1954-online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Perhaps I am missing something - We are rebuilding a victorian horse tram on new rails ready for a 21st century electric tram where there is no obvious demand for either? Can one of you put me right please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, NoTail said: Perhaps I am missing something - We are rebuilding a victorian horse tram on new rails ready for a 21st century electric tram where there is no obvious demand for either? Can one of you put me right please? You are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 And it is costing millions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryFuchwit Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 13 minutes ago, NoTail said: Perhaps I am missing something - We are rebuilding a victorian horse tram on new rails ready for a 21st century electric tram where there is no obvious demand for either? Can one of you put me right please? How do you know there is no demand for an electric tram system to Birchill and Farmhill? I would have thought if you could connect up those, Saddlestone and Governors Hill you would have plenty of take up on them for commuting into town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 24 minutes ago, TerryFuchwit said: How do you know there is no demand for an electric tram system to Birchill and Farmhill? For people travelling from those areas there is no advantage of rail over bus. Buses have the flexibility to travel on any road - so can make a route around Birch Hill and also make stops in any part of Douglas. Once a tram route is constructed, there is no possibility to vary the route to take into account changing passenger demand. The cost would be enormous - for one thing, the system would have to be 3 foot gauge rather than standard gauge. The route would be contentious. Up and down Avondale Road? That's a bit steep for a tram. Up and down Summerhill? That's even steeper, and there is not too much space there either. People just want to get from one point to another in the quickest time, with minimal walking and maximum comfort. Bus - tram - they don't care. Unfortunately the DoI seems to be dominated by Longworth, who is just a grown-up kid who like to play with new track layouts. Black seems to incapable of independent thought. For him to make a statement to a newspaper about this rail link without even giving any basic details is just...... ah, sod it - I've been driven to drink - insert your own expletive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanShimmin Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 5 hours ago, Numbnuts said: Chatting to one of the workers on the prom earlier and asked about why the rails had been pulled up by Castlemona Avenue . Apparently the welds were inferior and Failed when checked , allegedly done when to cold but not sure thats right , so they are going to relay them through to Sea Terminal but not currently. Those welders brought over from across have made there mark haven't they ! Wonder will we ever find out how much that cost to lay then rip up again . I saw the same this morning. Interesting they have just laid tarmac right over where the tracks were. Looks like they're given up on it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 12 hours ago, AlanShimmin said: Interesting they have just laid tarmac right over where the tracks were. Looks like they're given up on it. If the layout is now how they intend to run the horse tram (for a season or so) it is such that the trams cannot be switched from one set of rails to the other - they would have to go to and fro on the same set of rails. In the previous termination point at the sea-terminal roundabout there was a fair amount of room to get the horse turned around. At The Esplanade there is much less space available to manoeuvre the horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finlo Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, Two-lane said: If the layout is now how they intend to run the horse tram (for a season or so) it is such that the trams cannot be switched from one set of rails to the other - they would have to go to and fro on the same set of rails. In the previous termination point at the sea-terminal roundabout there was a fair amount of room to get the horse turned around. At The Esplanade there is much less space available to manoeuvre the horse. Make the bugger's walk backwards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prism10 Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 24 minutes ago, finlo said: Make the bugger's walk backwards! That's too much horsing around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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