Promenade - Megathread

[Banker]

15 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

The Indy Comments seems to think not re. DOI and lists further overspends. I'm fairly sure the MEA Board resigned en bloc when matters became public at the time?

Suppose you’ve got Baker in charge who followed Harmer who both basically let the executive do what they want and then defend all the cock ups

[Non-Believer]

33 minutes ago, Banker said:

Suppose you’ve got Baker in charge who followed Harmer who both basically let the executive do what they want and then defend all the cock ups

I don't think it's peculiar to DOI, they're just the currently outstanding example. With luck this new scrutiny should lead to a culture change but it will take time....and no doubt be contested in some quarters.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Non-Believer
extra bit

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, Banker said:

It’s what’s been needed for some time & if Alf becomes CM with Bill as Treasury there will be more cuts & budgets reined in 

Don't bet on it.  I suspect this is just macho pre-election posturing and nothing will change.  The DoI will keep on spending money without authorisation and then present the new Tynwald with the bills after the election.

Cannan has been Treasury Minister for well over four years.  Shimmins has been a Departmental Member for the same period.  If they really cared about reining in the spendthrift tendencies of Departments such as the DoI they could have acted long ago[1] and if been blocked by Quayle and the Civil Service hierarchy,  could have made a public fight about it.  Instead they quietly sat on the gravy train doing nothing.  Now the election has come round, they're realising the voters aren't impressed and are making noises about the costs they waved through.

 

[1]  It's not often realised but Treasury employees can be those actually running the financial side of over-spending Departments - in DHSC for example.  So the Treasury has direct control not just 

[Non-Believer]

I think you could read lots into it. Undoubtedly they've had to act because of the Covid hit and it's maybe an indicator of just how bad things are; but then you could say if it's been such fiscal dog's dinner, as Roger M. points out, why hasn't it been addressed before? And not just Cannan, what about his predecessors? 

Or have things just come to such a publicly embarrassing head with DOI/Prom/buses that someone has to be seen to be doing something? Electorally convenient as Roger says.

I doubt that anybody could begin to calculate just how much has been squandered because of this, over the years? Clearly, the money must have been so plentiful previously that it didn't matter?

But Govt only looks forward, never back.

[Two-lane]

Tynwald approved the overall design and the budget for the Promenade. Admittedly, an early press release stated that "The northern end is to be redeveloped on a simple, like-for-like basis" - but I assume the politicians considered that the 8 inch thick concrete slabs and pink concrete to be insignificant in terms of cost.

How many politicians are able to understand the basics? How many politicians have in recent weeks have publicly stated that the vaccination "hubs" are a waste of tax-payers money? If the answer is "none", then nothing will change.

 

[Numbnuts]

5 hours ago, Two-lane said:

Tynwald approved the overall design and the budget for the Promenade. Admittedly, an early press release stated that "The northern end is to be redeveloped on a simple, like-for-like basis" - but I assume the politicians considered that the 8 inch thick concrete slabs and pink concrete to be insignificant in terms of cost.

How many politicians are able to understand the basics? How many politicians have in recent weeks have publicly stated that the vaccination "hubs" are a waste of tax-payers money? If the answer is "none", then nothing will change.

 

Some of those approved works on the Prom are now not happening allegedly   . The roundabout  bottom of Broadway is now just going to be tarmac and not granite etc 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Numbnuts

[Banker]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

Don't bet on it.  I suspect this is just macho pre-election posturing and nothing will change.  The DoI will keep on spending money without authorisation and then present the new Tynwald with the bills after the election.

Cannan has been Treasury Minister for well over four years.  Shimmins has been a Departmental Member for the same period.  If they really cared about reining in the spendthrift tendencies of Departments such as the DoI they could have acted long ago[1] and if been blocked by Quayle and the Civil Service hierarchy,  could have made a public fight about it.  Instead they quietly sat on the gravy train doing nothing.  Now the election has come round, they're realising the voters aren't impressed and are making noises about the costs they waved through.

 

[1]  It's not often realised but Treasury employees can be those actually running the financial side of over-spending Departments - in DHSC for example.  So the Treasury has direct control not just 

I know for a fact that Shimmins has been pressing for more control on over spending for some time , supported by Treasury team but it’s been getting blocked by some ministers and their CEOs 

[the stinking enigma]

6 hours ago, Banker said:

It’s what’s been needed for some time & if Alf becomes CM with Bill as Treasury there will be more cuts & budgets reined in 

I don't see it myself. Execute the vulnerable will be alfs main policy.

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, the stinking enigma said:

I don't see it myself. Execute the vulnerable will be alfs main policy.

Especially if they are on a big pension

[LightBulb]

17 hours ago, Happier diner said:

Especially if they are on a big pension

So who is actually responsible for the end bill ?

[finlo]

Just now, LightBulb said:

So who is actually responsible for the end bill ?

You,me and all the other taxpayers!

[Happier diner]

That's not necessarily true. It's a pension scheme. It's the committments that are the concern, not the day to day payments. Currently as far as I know it's self funding.

[NoTail]

Just talking this morning to the guys relaying the stones at the bottom of Broadway. They say that at first they were laid onto concrete and sand. 'They' changed their minds and insisted that they must be changed to just sand.

I am no road engineer but that sounds a bit odd. More likely to subside if laid on sand imo. Perhaps Numbnuts has better information. 

[Happier diner]

20 minutes ago, NoTail said:

Just talking this morning to the guys relaying the stones at the bottom of Broadway. They say that at first they were laid onto concrete and sand. 'They' changed their minds and insisted that they must be changed to just sand.

I am no road engineer but that sounds a bit odd. More likely to subside if laid on sand imo. Perhaps Numbnuts has better information. 

Block paving is normally laid in sand isn't it. The ground has to be super compacted to prevent settlement though. Laying in concrete generally causes block paving to fail as it doesn't allow natural movement of the blocks and they break off. That's what I always thought

 

Edited February 22, 2021 by Happier diner

[TheTeapot]

The 'eco sand' made of all my beer bottles by corletts is good for block paving.